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Some thoughts on using samples and name with "drugs" in music and permission for parties
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parapsyched
Scratch 22
Started Topics :
72
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548
Posted : Aug 21, 2007 20:27
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here`s what i suggest:
subconsciousmind you leave drug samples out of your tracks.
i`ll keep them in mine.
and the beat goes on.....
yes ?
if to quote simon p track : "its like looking at a finger pointing to the moon... " you know the rest
i think you are realy making to big of an issue from a small detail and missing the big picture here. but maybe its just me. or just you.
  if u dig deep enough u just might reach the sky...
"dream is destiny"
http://www.scratch-22.com |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
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37
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1033
Posted : Aug 21, 2007 21:35
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no problem para, as I said many times, its a detail, its small, there are bigger things, its just a small part of the big picture etc. . but its the only detail concerning public image I, as a musician, can take care of. So I will. even to paint a big picture you have to start somewhere.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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l!l
IsraTrance Junior Member
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17
Posts :
48
Posted : Aug 21, 2007 22:45
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I agree with you,Subconsciousmind, its just a detail we can easily fix...of course that depends on each person though.
In my opinion, those samples are in bad taste and I dont use them. Plus, they are sooo cliche'.
But then again thats just me 
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Aug 22, 2007 03:23
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I'd just be happy if content of samples, party names etc were spread out on an even percentage. Yes drugs can open my mind, but I'd like a great deal more than that forced through the door once it's open.
To me true art is a personal expression in any form which can be experienced by another. If you just look for the same old meeeeesssscccaaaaaaliiiiiinnnnne samples that we've all heard before, you're not really expressing anything that is unique to yourself.
In short it gets deeper than this.
The thing about drug samples is everyone that matters, in this case, knows what is being said and in advance understands drug experiences so it's merely an easy conversation starter.
Be bold.
Be personal. |
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the daleks
The Daleks
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34
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584
Posted : Aug 22, 2007 09:15
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On 2007-08-21 14:26, subconsciousmind wrote:
if all had thought like me in the first place
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i think thats the point, here is that not everyone thinks like you..
I'll say it again, dogma has no place in art
I personally dug it alot when the anouncer said to Jim Morrison "we dont want you to use the word 'high' or 'higher' in the song (light my fire) because we think it connotates a bad meaning relating to drug use, and we don't want our viewers to see that" , and Jim got right in front of the camera and did it anyway and really annunciated it
too me thats cool, because music is about a kind of freedom, and we should not compromise on that just because someone else tells us too
if you feel it personally and make that choice, however, thats a different matter
you all will notice perhaps that Colin hasn't made one post in here...maybe he's just busy, but OOOD is full of such 'drug' samples referencing marijuana. and you know what? I kinda like it..
so if reporters are going to sensationalize something, they're going to find a way to do it anyway/anyhow like Undertow said
if your country is so bad for the scene, then you have some choices, either move out, or do something about it. and by doing something about it, organize a 'music festival' in a public park with all of the permits and such like you would a rock concert or normal event. get local businesses involved with alcohol and food stall. invite the townsfolk, local government and coordinate with the police so they are happy too, and make sure everyone knows they will be there. invite alot of local artists that are strong and well known (or international since europe is so close), and market it as a free party, or put proceeds for charity, and maybe even only run it from noon till 9pm or something.
see, there's alot more you can do, and better way you can spend your time than ranting on a bulletin board trying to change everyone's mind about some small detail that is really a part of the artists right
about the street, yeah its ok you didnt throw any bubblegum, but you didn't mention picking anything up, or even trying to get people together to clean it up. passive mind control vs positive action
Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Aug 22, 2007 12:03
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i like drugs samples, the samples that talk about the effect of drugs , triping, but there s some good and bad ones like everyhting ... no more drug samples,and soon what? a guy singing?trance in clubs? oops it s already there  |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Aug 22, 2007 12:11
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On 2007-08-22 09:15, the daleks wrote:
i think thats the point, here is that not everyone thinks like you..
I'll say it again, dogma has no place in art
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Sure not, thats not the point, the example was to point out, that: little things add up. That even a big picture needs to be startet drawing somewhere. The example was ment as a counterargument for those trying to argue over the "its just so small so its unimportant" thing.
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I personally dug it alot when the anouncer said to Jim Morrison "we dont want you to use the word 'high' or 'higher' in the song (light my fire) because we think it connotates a bad meaning relating to drug use, and we don't want our viewers to see that" , and Jim got right in front of the camera and did it anyway and really annunciated it
too me thats cool, because music is about a kind of freedom, and we should not compromise on that just because someone else tells us too
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I sure liked this scene too. But again, you have to see it all in context and relation. The line was IMPORTANT for the song. I never asked someone to leave the samples when they are important for the expression. I pointed that out several times.
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if you feel it personally and make that choice, however, thats a different matter
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Sure, I never wanted somebady make that choice, but I'm quite a precise person, (its going to be complicated to understand that) and I like things being discussed down to the point where all justified pro and cons lie on the table and ones choice can be done with full consciousness of the situation.
When PsyTrance is compared to HipHop, or your "doors" example comes up, it becomes clear, that what I really wanted to point out hasn't become fully clear. So I try to point that out. Maybe you noticed that I, several times, stopped arguing with some people, respected their decisison because I understood from their arguments, that the understood what I brought up.
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you all will notice perhaps that Colin hasn't made one post in here...maybe he's just busy, but OOOD is full of such 'drug' samples referencing marijuana. and you know what? I kinda like it..
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Yea I know, and I love OOOD music, haven't thought about how important the samples are for the expression there. Its ok to do it, and if you like it. All I wanted people to know, that there can be negative effect, and that avoiding them (when they are not essential for the song) is the only part we musicians can do for the public image. its just about KNOWLEDGE, Consciousness. Not about who makes what choice in the end.
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so if reporters are going to sensationalize something, they're going to find a way to do it anyway/anyhow like Undertow said
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And thats exactly what the completely drugged kids sais, when you go and say: "hey man, you've just been in the news, you really made the party look bad", then he sais: "so what? there are 100 other guys who are stoned". Thats what the guy sais who threw his trash in the woods: "so what? its all full with trash, mine doesn't make a difference".
Just because there are MORE people doing drugs, than using those samples unneccessairy, and the sum of people doing too much drugs has much more weight in how the scene looks like, we still have to compare EACH INDIVIDUUM. and what EACH Individuum can do. One can stop exagerating with drugs, another can stop putting unessential drugsamples. Everbody got to do what he CAN.
But Its ok not to for personal reasons etc, but if its out of the reason "because its a detail, others do bigger mistakes" than it really makes me sad, since that is an ATTITUDE which, worldwide, has a very big effect. Thats why I don't give in here. Thats a far bigger thing than those stupid samples. Its about ignoring ones responsibility by comparing the effect ONE PERSON can have to the effect 10000 Persons have. "well the others do it"
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see, there's alot more you can do, and better way you can spend your time than ranting on a bulletin board trying to change everyone's mind about some small detail that is really a part of the artists right
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Of course it is. But its not only about a detail, or changing ones mind, its about consciousness.
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about the street, yeah its ok you didnt throw any bubblegum, but you didn't mention picking anything up, or even trying to get people together to clean it up. passive mind control vs positive action
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Yes I did, I said that it could be a start to people cleaning up, which didn't exclude myself. This would have led to far. I wanted to stay all in the beginning of things, again, to point out that you can't argue "what one person does" against "what 1000 persons do" but that you have to look at the effect of the doings of each individuum.
About the "country" festival thing you talked about.. sorry but you just have no insight how it is here. So better leave the interpretations. And "walking away" is not my style, sorry.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
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5306
Posted : Aug 22, 2007 14:01
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reality check.. evevn if me and evryone here will stop using drug samples starting yesterday , next year party will still be busted.face the facts.
u try to justify why they hate u when all they have is ignorance ,good luck with that 
they rather 12 years old singing about sex , should i record my little sister to please them ??
btw , i never heard track sample saying "smoke crack" for example , or "heroin is good" and as activist to legalize weed which is number 1 drug in paries i think nothing wrong to fight for your truth.. nothing wrong with those samples exept someone told u it is. just like the blunt. www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Aug 22, 2007 14:14
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On 2007-08-22 14:01, tsabeat wrote:
reality check.. evevn if me and evryone here will stop using drug samples starting yesterday , next year party will still be busted.face the facts.
u try to justify why they hate u when all they have is ignorance ,good luck with that
they rather 12 years old singing about sex , should i record my little sister to please them ??
btw , i never heard track sample saying "smoke crack" for example , or "heroin is good" and as activist to legalize weed which is number 1 drug in paries i think nothing wrong to fight for your truth.. nothing wrong with those samples exept someone told u it is. just like the blunt.
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Sattle, its ok, your thought are all well and true.
BUT even to paint a big picture you have to start somewhere.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Aug 22, 2007 14:54
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Aug 22, 2007 17:43
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On 2007-08-22 14:54, tsabeat wrote:
exacly
i just guess we imagine diffrent "big picture"
mine invole freedom in all life aspects , include in samples.
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mine involves my freedomspace crashing into all other freedomspaces My freedom goes as far as someoneelses freedom begins.. there I have to fight or to give in. with the samples I give in cause for me there are more important things to fight for and I can not always fight, cause everybody deserves his freedomspace. Its natural, somewhere you give in, somewhere you fight, freedom against freedom.. each individuum wants freedom.
My Picture is different then youurs. It involves me being a part of a whole, a whole which is put together by "unessential" details. And in mine I do not compare to 1000 others, but do good where I can, even if its almost nothing compared what 1000others do together.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Aug 22, 2007 18:28
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On 2007-08-21 15:49, subconsciousmind wrote:
undertow, why didn't you react to the important part of my post?
Its starting from the point bellow your quoting and is delivering all the arguments you are asking for.. btw.
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Because IMO dumping trash is a bad analogy. Every single piece of trash thrown out is a problem in itself. The samples are not a problem as such.
And I agree that every individual needs to take responsibility for their own actions and never use "but others..." as an excuse. No need to quote that bit because to me that is self evident.
IMO that has nothing to do with the fact that using drug related samples really isn't the issue at all. It isn't a smaller mistake in a list of bigger mistakes. IMO, it isn't the real problem at all.
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There is no illness in psytrance, there are just individuums doing things.
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That was meant as seen by the media or the general public. Still, the disease/symptom analogy isn't entirely wrong. The problem isn't the samples and removing them won't change anything including the general public's view. Just the fact that we want to go on all night long is alien to them. They, if they party at all, are used to get drunk and be in bed by 2am at the latest.
Being used to the effects of alcohol, the idea of being able to go on all night long on some drugs freaks them out. They can't imagine that, some people are clean or that the the ones that aren't are not on some highly dangerous stuff.
They just don't get us and that's scary.
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Every single one adds up to the whole.
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That is just too simplistic. Some things really do matter and others don't. Especially when the use of drugs as such isn't even a problem to start with.
_Abuse_ of drugs and the way the general public has been brain washed about the acceptability of some drugs versus others are problems.
But frankly, as others have pointed out, the main reason for cops stopping parties is noise hindrance, trespassing, selling alcohol (or anything) without permits, lack of security, lack of first aid posts, lack fire extinguishers etc. Quite a few of these reasons are actually quite valid.
Basicly, the main problem is lack of control. Cops and officials don't like that.
Sure we usually know how to take care of ourselves and avoid violence and other such problems but they (the general public) don't know that.
You don't hear much about "underground" rock or pop concerts out in the woods that go on all night long without permits while disturbing the neighbours, do you? If they existed, the cops would hunt them down just as much as any techno or trance party.
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A high horse I call to sit there and say the others are ill, we putting samples are just a symptoms...
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Again, that's the view from the general public that you are trying to avoid, right?
UnderTow |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
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1033
Posted : Aug 22, 2007 18:46
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undertow,
If they are a problem or not is open. You say they are not. You can do that. Its very difficult to proove. I see that they firstly could possibly even have an influence of the "image" of drugs and the seriousness they have for kids, or at least they could be perceived as such from the public. Secondly as I mentioned they HAVE BEEN used as black and white proove to make the scene look bad. So, if they hadn't been there, they would have shown a fucked up kid... so now we go to the kid, if you hadn't been there.. it says: there would have been another one and so on. So who starts?
The samples can be abused for bad press, the kid can, who has to start? The kids just wants its freedom and youth who says thats negativ.. the public.. the samples are there for musical freedom, who says theiy are bad? the public. it doesn't matter if they are bad or not. it matters how they can be abused.
Just a minute ago I received an email concerning a live booking of mine... sorry we have to pospone a week and its not in that beautiful place again. trouble with the permission, they wont allow goas anymore, we haven't found another place yet, but are positive.
Its a very small and peaceful party.
All I see now.. those concerned have come to an overall bad image of Goaparties, one part of it maybe caused by the press, the press supported by the names and samples.. if they hadn't been there.. aa yes there would have been the fucked up kid.. if it hadn't been there.. a there would be the trash in the woods... if that hadn't been there if if..
I just do what I can. I'm not a fucked up kid, I don't throw trash.. So at least.. I avoid those stupid samples.
They have a problem with us being strange all night and day dancing freedom lovers completely out of control? Yes, and I certainly don't deliver them anything they can use officially against me. Except it is important for me. But those samples aren't. delivering them anything to make it easy for them to supress us would be a very bad strategy. Such samples and names make it dam easy..
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Aug 22, 2007 18:57
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HAH I never expected that my lack of response to this thread would be a topic of discussion in itself... flattering I suppose
Anyway as far as the samples on the tracks on our last album go - we never considered any 'implications' of using them, but they are all there for a reason; on Smoke A Lot we wanted to make a (political, I guess ) statement about the stupidity of the illegality of marijuana, and we gave it that title so that people would be able to recognise it and name it from the sample; and on Marijuajuana it was 50% the same as Smoke A Lot and 50% that the record we got the samples from made us piss ourselves with laughter and we wanted to share that.
I don't want to offend anyone but I think you guys are thinking far too much about this. The bottom line for me is that as long as we call this style of music "psychedelic trance" or "psy trance" it will always be associated with drugs from its name, irrespective of what samples the music contains or what the track titles are. And since there is exactly 0% chance of the genre as a whole changing its name so as to become less threatening to people who don't like that association, we all might as well just stop fucking worrying about it and just do our thing with as much integrity as we have left.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
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Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
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1033
Posted : Aug 22, 2007 19:08
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Hey Colin
Here in Switzerland we call it "goaparties"  The public has no idea of "psytrance"
In my eyes, what you described the samples are definitly part of the musical expression and therefore I personally find them justified. Furthermore, its "just" marihuana, which is used in all genres often. Depends the country, but here thats not a big deal anymore.
BTW. the "oood" samples from DR.Who I found much funnier
As I said in the other post to undertow. As it is for me. When I don't need it to express myself or make a statement, I won't deliver the public anything that makes it easy for them to have official arguments against the scene. My integrity, fortunately doesn't depend on that samples.. I understand everybody who feels otherwise.
To think is my hobby
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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