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Some thoughts on using samples and name with "drugs" in music and permission for parties
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
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1033
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 19:33
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Shamantrix, completely missing every point and doing monologues as always. 
Even though your english writing is quite good, I really have to assume, that your reading isn't.
As always your basing tremendous argumentations on mere assumptions and predustice. Picking out sentences out of context. Making dogmatic, one dimensional logical syllogisms. Nothing you said applys to me, since you obviously didn't get what I say and seem only interested in your own excurses.
So no need for me to respond. read again, open your eyes and mind, try not to see what you want to see, but what is really there.
Don't get angry, but I don't waste my energy in discussing with somebody who preduges this much and can't stop to put everything prematurly into a drawer. You seem to have enormous knowledge and seem to be highly educated, but it also seems that all this is the only thing you can see now. Think about it. I don't mean it bad.    Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
97
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1220
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 19:39
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mate, I know sometimes you need to do such stuff...but this is not worth it IMO cause of what has written here many times
also I dont know if its that good if the view of the world changes so much, just look at the first sentence of shamantrix post...could be some truth in it
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 19:45
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On 2007-08-20 19:39, MadScientist wrote:
mate, I know sometimes you need to do such stuff...but this is not worth it IMO cause of what has written here many times
also I dont know if its that good if the view of the world changes so much, just look at the first sentence of shamantrix post...could be some truth in it
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Ok, I respect how you value that stuff. Those samples and names must mean a lot to you, when you find it is not worth it. I didn't think that could be the case. since if they wouldn't worth a lot for you the question of "worth" wouldn't come up.
Shamatrixx first sentence is much too undifferentiated and onedimensional for me (the one with the commerce? ) No need to find truth in there since this is so much more complex than who wants to buy and who wants to sell. Its also about how many do it and also how much commercialism there already is with the amount of sellers we have and very especially the WHY someone sells (to pay the press or to get famous and rich) etc. etc.
We better leave that for a book or a disertation.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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1220
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 22:16
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just to clarify, those samples mean nothing to me since I never used any of this kind
but what means a lot to me is the right as artist to do what u want...and like I said several times, imo its not ok to limit yourself in this point just to change the view of the majority of the world to your music
you see its not the samples that are anything worth...its the principle right as an free artist to do what you re up to and put in your track what it needs...its the same with squeaky leads for example, or several layers of great fitting melodies, would you just skip them to please the proggy gang?
I bet you re going to say now its about drug samples and not sounds, but its the same thing
you want some artists to change their visions to change the view of the masses...and thats not ok imo and not worth it, cause (1.) this would limit this simple right of an artist and (2.) you wouldnt get much further to your goal
so, I hope this is clear now please dont get me wrong again
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 23:07
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On 2007-08-20 22:16, MadScientist wrote:
you see its not the samples that are anything worth...its the principle right as an free artist to do what you re up to and put in your track what it needs...its the same with squeaky leads for example, or several layers of great fitting melodies, would you just skip them to please the proggy gang?
I bet you re going to say now its about drug samples and not sounds, but its the same thing
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Man, the difference is the IMPORTANCE for the music.. whereas Melodies are extremely important for my music, those samples aren't. Thats why I can leave them if it pleases the world. Furthermore the meoldies are not offending anyone nor having a possible negative effect on the outside world.
Got it? since they mean nothing to me but could offend others, I just leave it.
Thats what I ment by leaving principles, when its about something unimportant and otherwise getting stuck not finding neccessairy compromises etc. remeber?
If there really is an artist outthere for whom these samples mean an essential part of his music, and avoidung them would mean neglecting an important part of his music, I would NEVER want him to leave them. Your argumentation is going in circles and you are starting to contradict your self, since you recently admited that sometimes it is ok, neccessairy to leave principles behind.. at that time you said its not worth to leave it in this case.. then I wondered that those samples are so much worth for you, now you say those samples mean nothing to you but are back to the worth principles.? follow? Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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spinalpuppet
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
87
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 23:14
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Why should we leave it? Because there is more about it that can be negative for us, others, the scene, the music, than there is positive.
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the point your missing and i'm not exactly sure how you even came to this conclusion that this idea would do anything is that to have a better public image you would literally have to throw everything about psychedelic trance out, including the very name of the genre.
it makes no difference what the artists names are, track titles..."pyschedelic trance" is a pretty obvious drug reference.
the first time i went to a party i remember my friend saying as we walked inside "how can this possibly be legal???"
If its getting media attention by you its probly just getting bigger and will eventually fade. Thats basically what went down in the US. Raves became huge, big national story, stupid laws past to charge promoters as drug dealers. at this point though its not a problem with cops showing up, its so died down getting anyone to show up is the problem.
your not going to be able to change the fact that the entire scene, every aspect of it is in your face pyschedelic/drug wise.
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 23:19
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On 2007-08-20 23:14, spinalpuppet wrote:
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Why should we leave it? Because there is more about it that can be negative for us, others, the scene, the music, than there is positive.
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the point your missing and i'm not exactly sure how you even came to this conclusion that this idea would do anything is that to have a better public image you would literally have to throw everything about psychedelic trance out, including the very name of the genre.
it makes no difference what the artists names are, track titles..."pyschedelic trance" is a pretty obvious drug reference.
the first time i went to a party i remember my friend saying as we walked inside "how can this possibly be legal???"
If its getting media attention by you its probly just getting bigger and will eventually fade. Thats basically what went down in the US. Raves became huge, big national story, stupid laws past to charge promoters as drug dealers. at this point though its not a problem with cops showing up, its so died down getting anyone to show up is the problem.
your not going to be able to change the fact that the entire scene, every aspect of it is in your face pyschedelic/drug wise.
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Man as I said, it just one DETAIL. unimportant for the music, maybe just a small impact on public (go back and read about the press and tv report i mentioned) but since it is unimportant for the music in 90% of the cases it would be such an easy thing to avoid.
Why are so many of you arguing not to avoid something just because it is little? never seen ants working or what?
Little things add up. we can't change the name, we can't change the music, we can't change the people but at least we can avoid those stupid names and samples.
look I would never demand to leave away crazy synth lines because they make the music look trippy to the public, because they are an essential part of the music... but thos samples and names aren't important. Of course we would never adapt to public needs with something essential. DAMN, we are FREE!!, but really to use those stupid names and samples really doesn't add up to our freedom. I'm sorry for everyone who finds his freedom cut down by not using them
Do you guys really make your artistic freedom dependend of the use of those names and samples?
If so, I'm sorry to have you asked to leave them. Believe me I would never give up any of my principles or essential right fo the public, I'm allway standing up for my right. But for me those samples are NOTHING for me, so I find it a good point to do a little compromise. Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
97
Posts :
1220
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 23:32
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On 2007-08-20 23:07, subconsciousmind wrote:
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On 2007-08-20 22:16, MadScientist wrote:
you see its not the samples that are anything worth...its the principle right as an free artist to do what you re up to and put in your track what it needs...its the same with squeaky leads for example, or several layers of great fitting melodies, would you just skip them to please the proggy gang?
I bet you re going to say now its about drug samples and not sounds, but its the same thing
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Man, the difference is the IMPORTANCE for the music.. whereas Melodies are extremely important for my music, those samples aren't. Thats why I can leave them if it pleases the world. Furthermore the meoldies are not offending anyone nor having a possible negative effect on the outside world.
Got it? since they mean nothing to me but could offend others, I just leave it.
Thats what I ment by leaving principles, when its about something unimportant and otherwise getting stuck not finding neccessairy compromises etc. remeber?
If there really is an artist outthere for whom these samples mean an essential part of his music, and avoidung them would mean neglecting an important part of his music, I would NEVER want him to leave them. Your argumentation is going in circles and you are starting to contradict your self, since you recently admited that sometimes it is ok, neccessairy to leave principles behind.. at that time you said its not worth to leave it in this case.. then I wondered that those samples are so much worth for you, now you say those samples mean nothing to you but are back to the worth principles.? follow?
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ok, you didnt understand me right mate
I admit its sometimes ok to leave principles, BUT generally, not in your right as an artist imo...
oh and plz dont get this wrong with the melodies...sure there is a difference btw samples and melodies...I just took this example cause I know some prog heads that mean u could leave the melodies also out, just like u mentioned with the samples...and since this was an example for breaking your principles in a similar way, it fits in my opinion...you can just leave melodies out to please the progheadz as you say leave out the samples to please the rest of the world
oh and I can defenately tell you some tracks that wouldnt be the same without drug samples...can you imagine, as already mentioned, hallucinogens lsd without that voice? or shpongle - dmt? just a few examples
but anyway, I'm not in the mood of cycling  and somehow it seems me like this is turning into a fight slowly, so I'm off
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 23:39
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On 2007-08-20 19:33, subconsciousmind wrote:
Even though your english writing is quite good, I really have to assume, that your reading isn't. |
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To assume something like that without bringing any explanation or counter arguments is considered to be a sign of not having any. So feel free to assume what ever will make you feel better. I don't mind... that's for sure.
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On 2007-08-20 19:33, subconsciousmind wrote:
As always your basing tremendous argumentations on mere assumptions and predustice. Picking out sentences out of context. Making dogmatic, one dimensional logical syllogisms. |
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Here's another set of unspecified references with complex language syntax but without any argument. It would took you a minute longer to quote parts of my post that you find to be assumptions and dogmatic, one dimensional logical syllogisms. So I figure that there must be another reason why you didn't do that.
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On 2007-08-20 19:33, subconsciousmind wrote:
Nothing you said applys to me, since you obviously didn't get what I say and seem only interested in your own excurses. |
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Look how silly it is. More than few people have tried to explain you different view points on numerous ways using different metaphores. On almost all of them you reply with the same sentence and you project your behavior on others (also a phenomenon quite nicely described by C.G. Jung). Not willing to change perspective and disassociate from your personal believe system even for a minute you act like a child accusing everybody for not reading your post. The way I see it we have all read your post and made different comments on it. You are the only one refusing to read whatever does not fit into your believe system.
Now I don't mean to sound arrogant, but you should really stop projecting your own prejudices upon other people because by doing it you don't even see or hear what other people have to say. You're constantly looking at your own image based on your quite distorted, filtered and adjusted model of reality.
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On 2007-08-20 19:33, subconsciousmind wrote:
So no need for me to respond. |
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But still you did respond.
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On 2007-08-20 19:33, subconsciousmind wrote:
read again, open your eyes and mind, try not to see what you want to see, but what is really there. |
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You remind me on psychologists...
A patient claims to hear voices inside his head and psychologist goes:
"hmmm..."
...and instantly he hears his voice making a comment inside his head:
"this patient is clearly having auditory hallucinations"
Since I hate to repeat my self I'll advice you to read what I've already wrote in previous comment and STOP projecting your behavior on others. You've also mentioned pride already... that's a projection also. Your pride is preventing you from considering any other perspective that could change your mind. It's obvious that you're trying to avoid changing your mind because you fear that it would be considered as a sign of weakness. Too bad, because you're not stupid nor uninformed.
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On 2007-08-20 19:33, subconsciousmind wrote:
Don't get angry, but I don't waste my energy in discussing with somebody who preduges this much and can't stop to put everything prematurly into a drawer.
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I'm far from being angry and I'm quite glad to spend some time and energy on topics like this one. Every chance to achieve understanding and develop true communication is worth the effort. After all, we will evolve only as much as our language and communication evolves. So in that sense I see no better way to spend time and energy. But that's just the way I feel about it.
I hope that you're not going to get mad for this little analysis I've made about your behavior because I've did it with the best intention. I really believe that you can understand it if you give it a chance. Read a bit about duality and dialectics, take an on line personality test (by Jung) and read what Jung has to say about different types and the nature of human mind. If you do that you'll realize that you don't even want to change the way "public" perceives "us".
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 23:59
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I got your point now Mad, a ok for the artist thing you make it general.. I'm bending my principles a little there for unimportant things. Didn't think it would be such a thing for others. But I respect that!
Far from fight here still don't agree on the melody example due to the importance FOR ME, which is high in case of melody but low in case of samples. Easy, lets leave it here.
@sham
Give it up man, I stopped taking you serious in the psychedelic discussion. Sorry. learn to read, or to think instead of quoting. I don't know which of both is your problem. Funny you brought up the projection thing. I like this one too. Because if you bring it up, you certainly know that a patient who is confronted with projection usualy gets angry or loudly rejects it or otherwise reacts with frustration.
Sham, did you ever think, that you and others may really not have understood whats the point?
Look, I had a good and more or less elaborate discussion, admited points gave in points, respected points of views with those, like mad or spin drift who really based their arguments on things been written, and not interpreted, predjuged.
Most of the others, you, sorry, obviously did far too much interpreting, skipping, what ever. Or did just not react on crucial arguments out of any reason.
But hey sham, you should enjoy this thing, for once you can be on one side with the rest of the forum and I'm taking your place. Feels good, doesn't it?
A sure, that means nothing to you.. ah yes, my bad...
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Aug 21, 2007 02:57
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On 2007-08-20 23:59, subconsciousmind wrote:
Funny you brought up the projection thing. I like this one too. Because if you bring it up, you certainly know that a patient who is confronted with projection usualy gets angry or loudly rejects it or otherwise reacts with frustration. |
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We all project our minds over the template of the world (symbols) but sometimes we have a hard time distinguishing our state of mind from "objective" world around us. So you are not a patient because of that... only few dare to look at that "dark side" of our behavior and I find you to be reasonable enough, open minded and thus capable of handling that. Obviously I was wrong.
And no... most people don't react at all when confronted with projection. They fail to understand it or subconsciously ignore any aspect of it. Those who are capable to understand that mechanism usually think about that, find it to be true and start avoiding it because it makes their life much easier.
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On 2007-08-20 23:59, subconsciousmind wrote:
Sham, did you ever think, that you and others may really not have understood whats the point? |
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Of course I did. But if that is the case it's your fault. There's no such thing as a bad disciple but there are many bad teachers. In other words if that is the case try to explain your point of view more clearly or with more details. Try to describe what would be the mechanism of change and what outcomes do you expect? Find some similar case or make few metaphores... Anything will be more useful than acting the way you do!
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On 2007-08-20 23:59, subconsciousmind wrote:
But hey sham, you should enjoy this thing, for once you can be on one side with the rest of the forum and I'm taking your place. Feels good, doesn't it? |
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First of all I'm not on anyones side. The fact that I'm arguing with you does not mean that I agree with the others!
Second thing - it doesn't feel any worse or better than usually. If you ware paying attention to what we wrote you would notice that some of us have quite different ideas about why your idea is not a smart thing to do. So as usual I have one or maybe two other users who kind of agree with me to some extent.
But I see that you're having a hard time being in minority
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Aug 21, 2007 03:41
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Hmm... only on Isratrance can such a simple opinion get so mixed up.
Whatever samples you put in a track there's always going to be someone who isn't turned on as much by them, whether it be drugs, horror films, orgasmic moaning. Everything makes someone uncomfortable in some way when it comes down to this.
The truth is the artist is always going to put in what they want, as thats how it gets there in the first place.
Personally I like samples to be as ambiguous as possible. I always found the drug thing a little cheesey, as it kind of proves a stereotype I hoped wouldn't exist, yes these people are obsessed with drugs.
Just remember they're a seasoning FOR an experience, not THE experience itself
As for toning it down to fit in with society, that secrets already out so there's not much point trying to water it down. You here boom boom boom, they here pills pills pills
And for the record there's hundreds of you're right I'm wrong threads on here. They're really annoying to read.
How about someone lays down their comments. People write back their own. Then take em or leave em. |
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the daleks
The Daleks
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
584
Posted : Aug 21, 2007 06:25
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really good points MadScientist, mubali & tomos
regarding dealers at parties, its the organizer's responsibility to put a stop to that. really bad imo. dealers are pushing at parties to make money, and that sucks. if its a small party and friends are sharing, ok, but keep it in the tent or private, and the organizer should rely on friends/attendees to create the social norm. if its a big party maybe you need security to kick em out. (slightly off topic, sorry)
Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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the daleks
The Daleks
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
584
Posted : Aug 21, 2007 06:26
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I think its ok if you want to take it in a different direction, but yeah not so good to lay down a dogma, 'ok no more drug samples'. then how do you define it? is there going to be a drug sample police and committee? then what next- no more risers(goldrays?), cause to me that sounds really druggy, and makes my hair stand up sometimes like a bad shot of speed. but at least you can time the break while you are dancing hahaha. i'm sure mainstream people dont like those either..
personally i would like to see less of these discussion and more technical stuff on this board, or at least just less of these kinds of pointless circular arguing discussions. its like a magnet for people like me with free time at work, and before you know it your sucked in
gonna try and stay away next time, or just read for humor (although I'm sure it will still take willpower to not get sucked in)
Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Aug 21, 2007 09:34
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Hmm... only on Isratrance can such a simple opinion get so mixed up.
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I know other forums too.
Its no dogma, as I pointed out several times, that I expecially ment specific cases of samples.
I find it sad, that so many artists reject responsibilty at all, or just give it to someone else like organizers etc.
@sham.
Man give it up. Again you are basing arguments on NOTHING. mere assumptions, prejustices, interpretations and claims of things been done or written, which never have been done or written.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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