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Some thoughts on using samples and name with "drugs" in music and permission for parties
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spinalpuppet
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
87
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 15:21
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yea get rid of samples that make reference to drugs...
when the cops show up to this place that they found from this weird looking flyer, with glowing alien paintings on the walls, black lights, people with glowing cloths on, weird video being projected while this fucking weird music is blasting out the speakers, as long as they don't hear a drug reference they won't suspect a thing..... |
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
97
Posts :
1220
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 15:27
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somehow I smell a sense of sarcasm in this thread suddenly 
 https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 16:14
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Quote:
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Ok, so you're saying that the drug referrence is a major factor of why authorities will not allow parties?
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And thats exactly why I said you should READ FIRST!
I never said something like that. The opposite. I said countless times, that this is about one little DETAIL which adds up to a bad image.
One detail which is unneccessairy for our music, and could easiliy avoided by us.
Its no CUre, its no big thing, there are bigger things and problems etc. etc. its just an unnneccessairy DETAIL
DETAIL, DETAILDETAILDETAILDETAILDETAILDETAILDETAILDETAILDETAILDETAILDETAIL
So please, stop to act, as if I said the samples are the only problem etc. etc. this sarcasm just shows your unability to READ and UNDERSTAND how differentiated this all is brought up by me and how much you are preduging me.
Some of you really seem to have extremley digital thinking, black white, right wrong..
Hey guys its all in color, its all analogue, swithc on your brains.
Why do you make such a big thing out of avoiding these names and samples.. just avoid these stupid samples and one little thing that adds up to the bad image is gone.
Really, everything has been said. All that you're saying has been said before. For all you arguments are uncountered counterarguments in the room.
The only open point is from spindrift who sais that he likes to choose the way of confrontations, which I said I respect.
All the rest is beside the point or based on wrong assumptions about me or my point.
So sorry if I don't react on the other things said, but its all repetition and I already delivered counterarguments and clarifications on all of it. I will react again, as soon as somebody built up his argumentation on those things instead of just starting from the beginning over and over.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
97
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1220
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 16:58
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mate I dont want to prejudge you, you seem like a nice guy
but the only thing I'm saying all the time as real argument is, why should we give up something from our rights as artists if its senseless cause it wont change anything...just look a bit deeper in spinalpuppets sarcasm, theres a lot of truth in it...there are so many things around that will always make the scene look unnormal and a kind of scary to the most of the world, like already mentioned, I doubt there will be a change in that view even when drugs are totally gone out of the scene, just because its so different...
thats why I dont know if its right to give up something from you as an artist for such an unnoticeable change...
but enough from my point, I think I showed it as clear as possible in this thread
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
2219
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 16:59
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What about spirituality? We're called cults out here by the media... That can stem from the rampant amounts of other religious icons used in the music and the scene as a whole. Why not change that too? It's really easy to do from the artist standpoint, all you have to do is not use those stupid samples?
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
2219
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 17:33
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This is the last one I swear...
One of the benefits of underground cultures is the fact of how difficult it is to market, or how little money there is to be made out of it. Some of the same things that annoy authorities are also the same thing that prevent this subculture from being bought and sold by the music industry. (the ones with money)
Maybe you are correct and by eliminating the offensive things to authorities you are making it to where we can have more events, but at that same point, do you really wanna go to a 30,000 person massive sponsored by Coca-Cola and Beck's? Will that retain any of the vibe that made us go to parties? I agree with the fact that it would be an easy change and it might seem useless to use such samples, but usually subcultures are built on lots of little idiosyncracies and to yank out one could topple the whole structure like a house of cards. I.E. Christian Death Metal It may be a different genre but in the end it's all just music and music is in my opinion is a tool for advancing humanity, and vice versa...
Here's a bit of a US musical history lesson. Elvis Presley sang songs written and originally performed by Afro-Americans. Because the commercial media believed that the largely caucasian fan base in america during the 1950's would not accept the music if it were presented by the original performers, Mr. Presley was shot to stardom faster than you can say Blue Suede shoes. He of course did things that made the media and the general public bash him, saying that the way he danced was immoral. However, his method of dancing gave birth to many other dance forms, as well as eventually america embracing the musical achievements of their afroamerican musicians. Elvis of course became known as one America's most celebrated musicans not just because of his music, but because he pushed the envelope when he needed to, and he knew how to appeal to people at the right time too.
In the end, you can do what you want. And so will I....
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
981
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 17:46
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[drug samples] "Tomos, of course they've always existed, so what, so have child abusers. No reason not to question it just because it was alwas there."
Ya-huh.. I think child abusers are *bit different* to musical content.
I haven't used any samples mentioning drugs in my music, but if I choose too, I certainly won't think twice about doing it. Sorry mate, but having parties banned because of the culture surrounding them won't be helped by a change of content. The British Rave act says that more than two people dancing to 'repetitive electronic beats' can be classified as a rave and shut down and equipment confiscated. The general public, the government, old out-of-touch conservative types are going to form their own opinion about any fast electronic music, regardless of its style. Hardcore, Techno.. its all the same to these people.
Sorry, but it's simply not our responsibility to censor ourselves. I want to be called an artist and not a sell-out or watered down version of what I could be.
I'm not saying drug samples are essential!! But I have the choice and nobody can stop me.
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 18:28
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Finally some new thoughts here.
If the leaving away the opposing samples and names will help or not can be questioned and not answered.
Just again my example with the TV report and the press quoting of the track names. Which gives a lot of reason to believe that those samples and names CAN be abused to put the scene in a bad light.
Why should we leave it? Because there is more about it that can be negative for us, others, the scene, the music, than there is positive.
Now look at this balance. Put spiritual samples on it... wont work, no need to argue.
Sure use of such samples can be a good thing and needed for expression and art. I'm not talking of such a case but from the 90% of cases where the samples are just thrown in out of no reason, just because its a habit in psytrance. I'm talking of avoiding these.
When it comes to responsibilty. There the opinions differ. That has always been the case and will always be. It's typical that many human beings cease to take responsibilty for their actions, especially artists hide behind the art.
All I see there is pride which has only negative causes in the end.
Its absolutely ridicoulous to say that PsyTrance will become CocaCola sponsered commercial thing, just because we leave the samples and names away... thats what I mean with black and white thinking. Think analogue.
PsyTrance can only become commercial because there are people WILLING TO SELL it and make their living of it.
Look all I say that there are a couple of things that are unneccessairy for the subculture of psytrance but have only negative effect on keeping it alive, especially in countrys where all is so dense, that PsyTrance Partys, not mattering the size, can only be continiued with at least a little bit of societys acceptance.
So why keep those things up? Be honest, most of the time they are really not needed for the art, and it is much more psychedelic to have the music speak or to put the samples in a way that they can only be heard by very experienced listeners.
When it comes to names, more hidden cryptic ways can be used etc.
Little effort, little effect, but so what? Why not do something, when its so easy? And furthermore I believe it will be good for PsyTrance as a style too. Since those samples ar far too overused. Its all cliche, no artist does himself anygood to fall into one of these.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
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84
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981
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 18:39
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I agree that irrelevant samples for the hell of it are a waste. They do the music scene more harm than public opinion because there is so much lame music being released right now.
Music should be an expression, so if it means something to you personally, use it.
I guess I'm finding it harder to agree to your points, not necessarily because I don't agree, but because there is virtually no mention of psytrance in any of the media here that I have heard of. Nor are there a shortage of parties near me in London, the only clubs I've heard that have been raided were on Hard House nights where ecstasy pills are the drug of choice. |
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
97
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1220
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 18:47
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man, you dont see the point huh? (no offense)
its just not worth it for limiting your mind as an artist, almost nobody wont do what he wants (even if its something lame like drug samples) just because of the view of the masses... (at least in our scene I hope)
and overall I bet at least 99,999% of all the people that saw this tv spot dont even know what psytrance is and will call it just techno and trance, so this cant be such a problem for our scene, except for those who know about it and make themselves bad thoughts
so 14posts are enough, over and out
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 18:54
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I think it's just sad when producers use names that refer to drugs or altered states.
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 19:06
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Quote:
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On 2007-08-20 18:47, MadScientist wrote:
man, you dont see the point huh? (no offense)
its just not worth it for limiting your mind as an artist, almost nobody wont do what he wants (even if its something lame like drug samples) just because of the view of the masses... (at least in our scene I hope)
and overall I bet at least 99,999% of all the people that saw this tv spot dont even know what psytrance is and will call it just techno and trance, so this cant be such a problem for our scene, except for those who know about it and make themselves bad thoughts
so 14posts are enough, over and out
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There is no point to get, cause you are just claiming that it is not worth it, and that it is not such a problem. For which you have no proove. Its just something you made up for you.
I'm NOT claiming the opposite is true. But I say if doubt is justified, and it certainly is, when it comes to your claimes (since other than you I have real live experiences which indicate it), and the thing to change is such an easy and small one, we'd better change it, just to be on the secure side. Especially since another claim is, that it will be only do good to the creativity in Psytrance.
I understand very well, that you don't care as long as you haven't experienced something negative or have no shortage of parties in your country. But please think global and in long terms. Buy organic food, recycle your trash
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
97
Posts :
1220
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 19:19
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okkk...damn you got me to write another one  but I'll make it quick
I was not saying that what you say is b/s and my main reason is NOT that its simply not worth it cause its not such a problem.
my main point is that I wont change anything in my music just because of the masses...as simple as that (also with drug samples, what I never used, but its about principles here I think)
oh and I care a lot for that what you want to reach, here are also parties getting busted, people having bad ideas of psytrance (or trance in general), or I also travel to other countries where its even much worse...so it tickles me a lot you know...
I just say I will never kill my principles for anything
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 19:25
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On 2007-08-20 18:28, subconsciousmind wrote:
PsyTrance can only become commercial because there are people WILLING TO SELL it and make their living of it. |
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If that had been the case it would already be mainstream. But I believe that there's another aspect to it... it becomes commercial when many are willing to buy it and that's exactly what you're suggesting. Greater social acceptance of psytrance.
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On 2007-08-20 18:28, subconsciousmind wrote:
PsyTrance Partys, not mattering the size, can only be continiued with at least a little bit of societys acceptance. |
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Music history is full of quite opposite examples. Most genres of now widely accepted music genres had similar problems in the start. It's in human nature to resist the change and to fear the unknown. Many cultures respect differences but our "modern" western culture is known for it's non-tolerance. If you don't fit into certain believe system you're considered as an enemy. It's that famous "with us or against us" policy.
What makes psytrance scene a bit different compared to other scenes is a different world view. A sense of community, sharing, inner values, unique expression and a form of tribal revival that McLuhan have foreseen in his "global village".
Another thing underlaying this "problem" is a "action - reaction" nature of the world we live in. Suppressed informations tend to come back to surface in exactly the same way as every other form of activity prohibition tends to fuel the resistance regardless of the actual usability of prohibited behavior... In a way it is like trying to extinguish fire by pouring a gasoline on it.
It's a matter of dualistic nature of the opposites... psytrance has little to do with that and it's just one of the countless pairs of opposites on which this world is made of. It has to do with discriminative human mind and the way we perceive the world. And we do that by perceiving things in contrast to other things. The very nature of our mind gives rise to dualistic nature of the world we live in. A man from your country wrote few excellent book about this and other subjects. His name was C. G. Jung and if you bother to read it you will understand that this friction you're so eager to stop is created on a far deeper level and it's impossible to influence it from the surface by changing names or other patterns of behavior.
I advice you to do exactly what you suggest others should do. Use your brain and realize that by discriminating certain form of behavior (like drug using psytrance like behavior) a boundary is made and the conflict is unavoidable. Add a hot water on ice and try to avoid reaction by reasoning about do we really need to be icy. Shift the perspective rather than banging your head against the wall... you'll always get a headache and the wall will do what walls should do... it will keep you on the other side
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 19:26
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On 2007-08-20 19:19, MadScientist wrote:
I just say I will never kill my principles for anything
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got you.
Thats a road one can go down. I respect that.
I'm a man of principles too, but I made the experience, that I can go much further, when I sometimes leave unneccessairy principles and my pride behind me, if it helps to find a compromise which is in my advantage.
Life, Relationships, making music, everything is all about finding the right compromises, agreements. Developing one self also means to adapt other things for one self and to give in sometimes, instead on "doing it my way" all the time.
If you always stick to your principles you miss some development chances, good compromises and risk to stand alone in the end. Thats why I say.. if it comes to those names and samples... its smarter to leave them. its nothing big, I'm not betraying myself, better thatout of free will now, then something I have no choice about later. But thats just how I do it in life.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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