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Some thoughts on using samples and name with "drugs" in music and permission for parties
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mk47
Inactive User
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Posted : Aug 20, 2007 07:12
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most drug samples are crap
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D.A.R.K
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5
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115
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 08:33
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-aeon-
Aeon
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10
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546
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 09:43
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if ravers in the UK only drank tea and used samples talking about Jesus i can promise you the police would still break up parties and confiscate equipment. IMO the authorities here are concerned with:
- noise and other 'environmental pollution'
- trespassing
- drugs
- alcohol re-sale
in that order.
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the daleks
The Daleks
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Posted : Aug 20, 2007 09:46
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I think what subconsciousmind is talking about here is 'raising the bar', something if we direct our spirit and will to it, is something acheivable
I personally like a party that gives back a little bit. If its a big party out of the city somewhere, it gives back to the community in economy, mind, and spirit. people can come in the morning, and check out the vibe, listen to the music, see people laughing and having a good time. people can bring their kids or family and the kids can dance in the grass with their parents.
i think when people see this side of it more than the 'drug' side, or even if there is a drug presence that people can get the feeling that their is a sense of responsibility, it may in turn lead to not only relaxation of law enforcement towards parties, but relaxation towards (some) drug policies, at the least m-j, which is kind of overdue imo
music and musicians can have an incerdible power over impressionable minds. HIP-HOP as it is mentioned has extreme detrimental effects to the overall good. kids look up to these people, and then think it is cool to cap some bitch or whatever, like happened in New Jersey a few weeks ago. same with psytrance. kids getting into the scene may be getting into the music, getting lightly turned on, but the dirge of drug-related samples in music definitely is gonna push them to think that thats the only way thats 'cool'
what about the spiritual side though? yes we can use psychedelics to open doors, but nothing saddens me more than someone who got traumatized by a bad experience, then it leaves some kind of scar on their mind for many years. so it can close doors too.
imo its not the only way for one, and two we can make it better. some artists are able to use samples with a certain degree of wit or subtlety that makes something really interesting, and to me that is cool, because you only 'get it' if you are in the know about certain things. But I also think that way too many people look for such samples because someone else did it and they think its cool, and there you basically have a bad mind virus.
since the tracks are basically instrumental, any language used (i.e. sample) will have a very high impact both in the recognition and rememberance of a track
and yes, we are responsible for how others perceive us! Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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the daleks
The Daleks
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Posted : Aug 20, 2007 09:50
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@subconsciousmind
we have a pretty good scene here in Japan. the parties are well organized, nowadays 0 impact to the environment is the standard, and people are very respectful of eachother and their space, and it is starting to get a better image, especially to the local people that may come and check it out. and man, japanese people can be real difficult once they have a reason to label something a certain way!
you should come check it out sometime!
well actually, to everyone, you should come check it out 
(but if you do, leave any bad attitude behind you, otherwise people will pick up on it, and you probably wont have that good of a time..) Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
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Posted : Aug 20, 2007 10:28
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Wow, I again surprised of these (over)reactions.
I think most of you really should have gone through the discussion first, or at least should learn to think about what you read and not to just read fast and then put somebody into drawers. thinking you know that person, or have understood even though not read properly.
I'm even accused of bad attitude...
ALL THE ARGUMENTS that have been brought up are already sorted out by the initial post, the discussion or have nothing to do with my point, which only proves, that there haven't been read or understood properly
Therefore I wont react on any of them, just read yourself and find out how your posts must look for somebody who understands the stuff been written...
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I personally am trying to launch a project here, which should bring up a more positive image and more consciousness within and outside the scene. Nothing to do with adapting anything crucial. But, its really not helping me when local TV films at a commercial event just in the moment where they play PsySex stuttering L S D and then show it in the news.
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This is one unneccessairy DETAIL which adds up to a negative image and making partys (every size) here has become close to impossible in some regions.
neither it helps when an album like the 1200mics can be quoted be the press to have black and white proove for the irresponsible use of drugs in the scene.
All I say, is since those samples and names are unneccesairy anyway, we would better leave them.
Ok, guys. Go through the discussion again, use your brains and think about what you just wrote.
Sorry that those samples are so important for your happyness in life and work as a musician.
Sorry for your lifes then 
PS. MadScientis, why do you jump on that "HipHop" has drugsamples too train?
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On 2007-08-19 17:29, MadScientist wrote:
with refering to house etc I just wanted to state that its not about the samples you know...I wanted to show you that u can defenately use such samples without that the whole world thinks its drug music
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Of course true, but this is because there are a lot of other facors missing there.
The factor "drugsamples" in psytrance is not the same as in other music, since its the combination of details that makes the difference.
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Applys to HipHop as well. You can't compare country or music styles, since they are compiled of too many different factors.
Mubali, read FIRST! Also the others
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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EYB
Noized
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111
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2849
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 10:36
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I didn't read all here just the some of first posts,
but don't stop using samples that are pro lsd!!
Spread the message of its power!
Ill use much more of this samples from now on!!
Please other people do the same, especially for acid and other psychedelics not for junk-drugs like speed
Acid rulez !!
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subconsciousmind
SCM
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Posted : Aug 20, 2007 11:05
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On 2007-08-20 10:36, EYB wrote:
I didn't read all here just the some of first posts,
but don't stop using samples that are pro lsd!!
Spread the message of its power!
Ill use much more of this samples from now on!!
Please other people do the same, especially for acid and other psychedelics not for junk-drugs like speed
Acid rulez !!
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LOL
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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-aeon-
Aeon
Started Topics :
10
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546
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 11:15
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i think there are too many samples in psy anyway. use a sample if it is awesome, or cleverly implemented, or interesting...
i can't promise any of the above for my sampling habits  but it's what i aim for. in the past i have been guilty of throwing in samples like an afterthought, as if the key to making music more psychedelic is to explicitly mention psychedelics using speech. ultimately i think it merely detracted from the impact of the music-as-psychedelic statement...
now i try to tell myself: make your music trippy enough and you don't need yet another matrix mckenna sample!
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
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5306
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 12:18
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On 2007-08-20 09:43, -aeon- wrote:
if ravers in the UK only drank tea and used samples talking about Jesus i can promise you the police would still break up parties and confiscate equipment. IMO the authorities here are concerned with:
- noise and other 'environmental pollution'
- trespassing
- drugs
- alcohol re-sale
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exacly
as well mubali as he said - HIP HOP
is their parties closed cause they talk about drugs and murder ? no funny samples but lyrics they actualy write?
i meen , chris rock (black stand up artist) have pro-drug show and get to preform in medison square garden! over 17000 peaple!
and i cant play one of his samples in the forest for 200 pealple ??? hah lol www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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scobbah
Kiriyama
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991
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 12:24
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An interesting subject indeed. I have two things to add though...
First, I try to live by the proverb 'be the change you want to see in the world'. Since I would like people to be open-minded and to accept a number of things and disapprove a good bunch of others, I could not care less for a few drug-related samples, really. I do not use drug-related samples myself and although I find this kind of samples a bit cliché nowadays I do not mind if anyone else employ them - it is their choice as free individuals. To adhere to the proverb, I would like people to put their energy where their energy is due - the society is full of injustices which are more important to challenge than drug-related samples in music. In conclusion, I want people to be open-minded to a great extent yet not jaded and blind to such extent that they fail to recognize which challenges are worth to take on.
Secondly, I believe the establishment of the society has always chosen certain groups in the society to be scapegoats, blaming them for things they overtly do not carry the entire guilt for. As for drug use and abuse, the 60s put the blame on the hippies and the 70s blamed rock'n'roll for irresponsible drug abuse. The druggies of the 80s were disco-Stues and later the 90s put the blame on electronic music, hip-hop and reggae culture. By doing so, the establishment could claim in public that the problems associated with drug abuse and those who were abusing were people who had put themselves outside the society. These drug-digesting people were not pursuing the particular norms and values promoted by the care-taking society in which the "safe" citizens lived in and they were thus not a part of their "safe" world - drug-users were people you saw on the television when the news broadcast made ventures into the gloomy suburban areas (or perhaps inner-cities if we are speaking about the US).
The reiterated message was: our kids, who have chosen to pursue and live according to the norms and values of our good society, are not the people who end up taking drugs of any kind!
This could not be more hypocrite. The Woodstock era attracted people from all social classes and the same goes for psychedelic trance. If you do not mind me being a bit cynical here, but at least the politicians and the police in Sweden have over and over again proclaimed us party-goers to be the "only" drug-users (they do the same here as well for other musical styles and cultural expressions that they do not fancy ) - their well-behaving kids are not into this "weird" drug-use - at least according to them.
Ironically, over the years that I have gone to psychedelic trance parties, I have shared joints with all sorts of people including these middle-class/upper middle-class people. The establishment seems to be so fond of shedding light upon these people as non-drug consumers and well-behaving "good" people whereas the rest of us are competing for the "bad guys" title.
The establishment, both speaking of the domestic one as well as the global one, must acknowledge that the "problem" with drugs is no longer etched to one or a few cultures attracting a special kind of people but nowadays people from all the social classes of our Western society occasionally do drugs. Thus we should stop putting the blame on particular groups and instead acknowledge the fact that we have to review and reconsider our drug policies.
In sum, I do not wish to compromise my ideas in order to become more accepted by the society. Society has so many flaws and has proven through history to be forced to review policies and ideas over and over again - and I think it is time for another major review for the benefit of the freedom of the individual.
Just my two cents. Sorry if something is incoherent, I blame it on lack of coffee digestion. 
Aural transmissions from the deep forests of Sweden
www.dvsmrecords.org - 'Patterns II EP' by Silent Horror out now! |
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mubali
Mubali
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Posted : Aug 20, 2007 13:05
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Of course true, but this is because there are a lot of other facors missing there.
The factor "drugsamples" in psytrance is not the same as in other music, since its the combination of details that makes the difference.
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Applys to HipHop as well. You can't compare country or music styles, since they are compiled of too many different factors.
Mubali, read FIRST! Also the others
[/quote]
Ok, so you're saying that the drug referrence is a major factor of why authorities will not allow parties? But also aren't there other factors that really prevent events from happening... Let's take one major factor that hasn't been address. The duration of events. Most events are usually 8-12 hours. That causes authority figures to have an issue because, one it's really loud music, and two it's happening at 4am.
Another factor is not really the drugs, because human existance is based upon our bodies reacting to chemicals, whether natural or not. Do you drink coffee? Smoke Tobacco? Eat chocolate, have sex? Drink Alcohol? Guess what... all those things release endorphins in your body.... What has been made a lot more apparent is the type of drugs used. Anywhere you go, they will serve alcohol somewhere, and what is associated with alcohol establishments usually? MUSIC....
However with alcohol or such "legal" intoxicants there is a control on them, a form of taxation if you will, that allows the authorites to monitor and capitalize on those same items. With drugs, there are no such monitoring systems. therefore, no revenue to be collected from liscenses, taxation of the corporations, fines for intoxicated driving, import/export tax,etc... Yet alcohol is technically considered a drug, yet tolerated by authoritative figures and generally not dissuaded to the youth culture.
interesting correlation huh? Now that being said, I don't use drug samples in my tracks, but I don't think removing the drug image is really allow us to throw parties everywhere. Or even in just Switzerland...
As for it being difficult to throw parties in Switzerland, dude it's the same everywhere with perhaps the exception of Portugal.However there have been events in Switzerland,in fact there's one this weekend in Switzerland which is permitted, so in the end all you need do is follow the rules neccesary to make it happen like anything else. Like it or not, electronic music as a whole will always be disliked by the more commercial and authoritative folk. Why? because it's different and hard to actually control.
What you are talking about is being talked about in ever single music genre and there are many factors in psychedelic trance that make it unpopular to the status quo. And to dismiss that fact believe it or not is one of the same reason why the hippies got shat on in the 60's. Elitism. You can be my brother and we can all be family, if you believe in what I believe. Otherwise we'll try to "educate" you.
But I'm sure that if we had daytime music events that got it's permits like a death metal concert, we could party all we wanted... So in the end, like everything else that the "man" keeps us down for, there are many factors to why.
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 20, 2007 13:21
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On 2007-08-20 10:28, subconsciousmind wrote:
PS. MadScientis, why do you jump on that "HipHop" has drugsamples too train?
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no offending here, but may I say a big lol? I'm not jumping on that train, I think I mentioned first that lots of other music styles have drug samples also...I just didnt mention hiphop by name before, I'm so sorry for that but it kicks me on a good thought, since talking about drugs in hiphop is way more rough and hard than in psy (at least in german hiphop)...and what can I say, politicans are really thinking here about prohibiting some sorts of hiphop, but not because of the drug related stuff, but of sexual content, really really rough one...and they made even studies where they found out that 16yo girls here are having gangbangs with up to 10 ppl or more since they got told that its super cool from their superstars...you get what I mean?
what's imo even much worse is for example a techno song I got to hear...it has a guy talking about fucking a 13!yo directly at the bar in a club and taking photos with his camera...and there are several similar tracks...do those styles get a bad reputation? hiphop yes, but not for the drugs...and techno not at all I think
oh and the daleks, look in one of my previous posts what I wrote about village people looking at a festival...I saw several times how they got asked for lsd and stuff and were looking like "help"
but anyway, wise words here from mubali, tsabeat & scobbah and I'm not going to tell everything I mentioned already once again
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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mubali
Mubali
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Posted : Aug 20, 2007 13:43
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Regardless of whatever samples are in this music, the underground culture will always exist. There will always be people putting on small scale events somewhere, and there will always be the commercial end of things trying to market the enticing aspect of the underground culture. That has existed in every form of art, and will continue because that is part of the human existence. As concious human beings we recognise the duality of humanity the status quo and the divergents... Not to mention by the time we started infiltrating the system, we would have forgotten why we did it in the first place. I relish in the fact that the music I hold dear isn't enjoyed by everyone, it makes me feel less of a sheep and more of and odd duck. And I enjoy creating this music because I could talk about whatever I wanted to reflect on and I have every right to express myself in that way. At the same time as a human being, there are some things that I don't feel that I should mention, but it doesn't mean that if I don't want to talk about it, no one should. I can save that for when I die and become the morality police.
Oh, and that comment about Posford being the only one that got it right, that's b/s dude. Otherwise known as a double standard, if mentioning of drugs is a negative impact on the scene and community, then even the "artistic" usage of the word will have a negative impact and thus be one of the things you want to change. What makes something artistic is the perception of the individual. And I'm a firm believer in you saying whatever you want and fuck what anybody else thinks.
I'm sure if you petitioned Simon asking him to change his project name from Hallucinogen he's probably have this response... It's two words, seven letter total... An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 20, 2007 14:14
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haha good point mubali 
its like I say all the time...leaving out drug samples will do nothing to the view of the humanity, the only thing it does is breaking or principles...as simple as it is
if you want to do something really help full, get under aged kids out of parties, try to get the people taking less drugs, go to the tv and talk to the people and try to explain them how this scene is like in your eyes....BUT I doubt still any of those would do something really...the only thing we reach by leaving out those samples is that we give some of our rights to the garbage! get it, it wont change anything...just breaking our own bones
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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