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Some thoughts on using samples and name with "drugs" in music and permission for parties
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subconsciousmind
SCM
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37
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1033
Posted : Aug 19, 2007 19:50
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On 2007-08-19 19:29, MadScientist wrote:
I can really understand your point mate, but the only thing I can say is that leaving such samples out of the music wont help much, especially when this image is already established...you know, you cant go to the world and say: look we dont use drug names and samples anymore, so the scene is better now
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Sure not that way. But think in long terms. its one detail, details add up.
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about the tv, I think a voice saying lsd or something wouldnt be that hard if there were no few hundred fucked up freaks in front of the camera...
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actually there weren't. The impression still was bad.
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like I said before, it is MUCH more about the scene itself, than about its music 
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definitly, as I said, it's one detail we as musicians can take care of.
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and for the music tells them to take drugs, thats a bit out of it imo...nobody, maybe except some stupid raver kids (that have nothing to do there like I said above), would just take drugs just because somebody in the track says lsd...I think even authorities should know that,
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Of course the music doesn't tell them. But thats what people can say, if they look for arguments.
But now, for once really about the influence:
the way drugs are named and handled in PsyTrance, certainly lowers the threshold of taking them for the kids you mentioned. It tells them that they are cool and normal to take. Again, just talking about 16year old sheep like persons and just mentioning ONE DETAIL which finaly adds and ends up in sombody taking drugs.
Note: (especially for sattle) I DON'T SAY the music makes them take drugs . I just say it's one detail, which lowers the threshold.
I don't even say that its good or bad!!
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the world just thinks this is a drug scene cause it IS a drug scene, and as long as it is like I explained above, nothing will change in their views
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No it isn't. Not entirely at least.  And if it should change, then everybody has to start somewhere.
  Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 19, 2007 20:16
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On 2007-08-19 19:50, subconsciousmind wrote:
Quote:
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On 2007-08-19 19:29, MadScientist wrote:
I can really understand your point mate, but the only thing I can say is that leaving such samples out of the music wont help much, especially when this image is already established...you know, you cant go to the world and say: look we dont use drug names and samples anymore, so the scene is better now
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Sure not that way. But think in long terms. its one detail, details add up.
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like I said, generally you re right about that, but in my opinion its such a minor thing that its unessary to start at that point...there are much bigger problems that make this scene look like that
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about the tv, I think a voice saying lsd or something wouldnt be that hard if there were no few hundred fucked up freaks in front of the camera...
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actually there weren't. The impression still was bad.
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u know its the TV...they can everything look like they want, good things extremely bad, or bad things good etc...its the TV, in which the vast majority of the western world sadly sees the reality
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like I said before, it is MUCH more about the scene itself, than about its music
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definitly, as I said, it's one detail we as musicians can take care of.
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again...I think its about the intention of the artist, and in my opinion it is art till you change something because of the liking of anyone else...or would you skip that squeaky lead out of your track just cause some persons dont like it? this is all about the same generally seen...an artist should have the right to do in his music what he wants...look at the dark scene for example, there are so much samples about satan and going to hell etc...and that doesnt make them look satanists, or does it?!
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and for the music tells them to take drugs, thats a bit out of it imo...nobody, maybe except some stupid raver kids (that have nothing to do there like I said above), would just take drugs just because somebody in the track says lsd...I think even authorities should know that,
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Of course the music doesn't tell them. But thats what people can say, if they look for arguments.
But now, for once really about the influence:
the way drugs are named and handled in PsyTrance, certainly lowers the threshold of taking them for the kids you mentioned. It tells them that they are cool and normal to take. Again, just talking about 16year old sheep like persons and just mentioning ONE DETAIL which finaly adds and ends up in sombody taking drugs.
Note: (especially for sattle) I DON'T SAY the music makes them take drugs . I just say it's one detail, which lowers the threshold.
I don't even say that its good or bad!!
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and thats what I mean you know...it would get you much further if organisiers would finally start to control the ages strictly...there were no naive under ages that think something is cool cause its mentioned in the music...and at least here, its a much bigger fault to have under ages at parties where they're not allowed to be from the law and that they consume drugs there than just having adult people around doing some drugs...
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the world just thinks this is a drug scene cause it IS a drug scene, and as long as it is like I explained above, nothing will change in their views
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No it isn't. Not entirely at least. And if it should change, then everybody has to start somewhere.
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I know there are several people that dont do drugs, or dont do them anymore in this scene
(hello, I'm one of them )
but the vast majority does it, and a lot of them not like a quater blotter half a year u know...its sadly as it is, but I think almost the half of the people at a big festival are so fucked up on drugs that it makes already the overall view...
as far as I can say, wou will never get drugs out of this scene...simply cause its a music that got born in drug parties in goa, and since its beginning drugs were a big part of this scene...thats not the fault imo, it worked pretty well in the 90ies...but its getting worse since more and more people come into this scene just for the drugs and got no clue what all this is about...they started this thinking that psy parties are like a big drug-basar with drug music and the most drug people...
so if u really want to go in the details that much and want to get this scene a better image, you should start somewhere else imo of course
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
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1033
Posted : Aug 19, 2007 20:21
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On 2007-08-19 20:16, MadScientist wrote:
so if u really want to go in the details that much and want to get this scene a better image, you should start somewhere else imo of course
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Why? it's such an unimportant and small detail for the music. The effort to do it is equal 0. The positive effect on the image in long terms is much bigger than the loss in "musical" possibilities.
Not doing something positive just because it is something small, doesn't make sense to me.
Especially if the effort is this small.
I'm actually surpised why this little thing raises such discussion anyway.
Its so small, so easy to do, but helps to improve the image.
As said, everybody got to start somewhere.
There will always be drugs. but it can be lowered. or at least it can be reached, that people use them right.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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ohshit
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
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605
Posted : Aug 19, 2007 20:27
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@subconsciousmind:
The party scene is problematic here in Italy too but I don't think that you've found the right cure.
I understand what you're saying but I just can't think to Simon Posford Hallucinogen "L.S.D " whithout that title and that sample and I don't like the idea to ban a topic from my titles/samples just 'cause I am scared of the reaction from people that aren't in it.
It sound's to me like a limit to the artist creativity.
Maybe is happening here the same that happens in the rap scene where Russell Simmons wants to remove bad words from the lyrics.
http://www.actressarchives.com/news.php?id=5226
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2007/04/a_phase_shiftfrom_def_jam_1.cfm |
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 19, 2007 20:28
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agree with you on most...I just think not only the effort is 0, but also what it reaches is almost identically...maybe its just me, but in my opinion there are much bigger problems in the trance scene than drug samples...
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
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1033
Posted : Aug 19, 2007 20:49
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@ohsit,
I never said that this was THE cure. As I said many times before. Its just one detail which we could easily take care of.
Hallucinogen and L.S.D is actualy one of the only songs and artists who really used the samples in an artistic way.
I have to point out that I'm talking of the vaste majority of uses, where it is not needed at all, or excessive ones.
LSD was th original song.. all the others are just copies anyway.
@MadScientist
Yes there are much bigger problems, but again, no reason not to change a problem just because there are bigger ones.
If we still use the sample in all cases where effort is not 0, and its really important for the art, it will still be 90% less.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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vigge
Started Topics :
1
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27
Posted : Aug 19, 2007 21:52
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zzz... |
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Greententacle
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
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323
Posted : Aug 19, 2007 22:56
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You guys got problems.....  |
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Greententacle
IsraTrance Full Member
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323
Posted : Aug 19, 2007 22:58
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mubali
Mubali
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71
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2219
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 01:05
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Two words for you... HIP HOP....
That has more references to drug usage, and violence than most other forms of music... Why is there not a crackdown on hip hop shows?
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Aug 20, 2007 01:07
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@ greetentacle: yeap, sunday afternoon...what should we do? 
but I'm with mubali here...its exactly one of the points I'm refering to all the time
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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xrust
IsraTrance Full Member
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63
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1742
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 03:35
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On 2007-08-20 01:05, mubali wrote:
Two words for you... HIP HOP....
That has more references to drug usage, and violence than most other forms of music... Why is there not a crackdown on hip hop shows?
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i agree,but i think it is not the same..hip hop is much more commercial musik,and does not have that "weirdness" trance has.
i amen think about 100 trancers in the forest and then think about a hip hop concert-i think it is a different aproach by the society
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
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549
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 04:31
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@ subconsciousmind: It's not that I don't see your point, but your point has no point!
Hip Hop has not only numerous references to drugs but to other illegal thing also. It has a lyrics often with explicit criminal meaning while "eating dicks, fucking chicks, blowing brains out with a gun" and other utterly meaningful messages are "common language" in hip hop. Do you hear anyone complaining about that? Do they ban hip hop concerts because of it? Of course not!
Almost all governments are heavily involved in drug dealing on a large scale. Nobody gives a shit.
So the reason for marginalizing psytrance is not the drug connection... that can only be an excuse. Even if you could make it disappear they would simply find another excuse.
What they do mind is the fact that psytrance is largely based on hallucinogenic drugs. Those who use such drugs are not likely to use other drugs like cocaine and heroin and they do tend to start to think "outside the box". The latter is extremely bad for the system and in some way they are protecting their (coke and heroin) market and their tax payers from stepping "outside the box".
Having that in mind your idea starts to fall apart because it would not work but it would help them to gain even more heavy drug users and more obedient tax payers.
People like Albert Hoffman, Alexandar Schulgin and Terrence McKenna (each in his own way) spend their lives fighting for the possibility to use such drugs and get them out of the control of governments. I really hope that psytrance will continue to promote them even in such a stupid - non creative way such as by using "cool drug samples". Not that I like it, but it beats your alternative by the mile!
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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Enertopia
Enertopia
Started Topics :
99
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676
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 05:00
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My next album will be called...I WAS BORN TO SMOKE WEED, BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE IT< I WILL SMOKE HASH WITH PLEASURE.
And the opening track will be called.
I LOVE STONED PEOPLE
track 2 will be called
I SEE STONED PEOPLE
track 3
ACID IS THE ONLY WAY
and it will be released on DRUGS IS THE ONLY SOLUTION records.
The executive producer of the album is the well known and only XTAZY the third.
www.myspace.com/enertopiapsy |
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parapsyched
Scratch 22
Started Topics :
72
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548
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 06:17
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enertopia : i`m waiting for that album !!!
now for the subject at hand:
stop being naive and "hollier than thou"
removing drug samples will have no affect at all on the view of this scence by the public.
this public you speak of doenst even take the time to listen to this music regardless of any samples in it.
cops dont bust parties because of what they hear its because of what they smell... and see. (if they look deep enough in your stash pockets )
and if your saying you can reach the same psychadelic effects without drugs ... well then your bullshitting me.
drugs have always been a part of this scene and i hope it will always be like that.(not to encourage irresponsible drug use or anything)
so why not drug samples ? drugs are a part of this and so are the samples.
if it ever stops then it will be time to find a new name for it. not psytrance for sure.
and who wants the public to like us anyway? if i wanted wide acception and popularization i would be clubbing and listening to britney ....... and drinking beer and cheap vodka redbull.
p.s
if by any chance someone hears this music and does acid and starts thinking "outside the box"... is that realy a bad thing?
unless its a 14 years old rave kid. i dont think its such a bad thing. but maybe its just me.
if u dig deep enough u just might reach the sky...
"dream is destiny"
http://www.scratch-22.com |
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And too much time!!!