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Some thoughts on using samples and name with "drugs" in music and permission for parties
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 19, 2007 16:43
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in my opinion this has nothing to do with with dogmatic or childish, but with simple principles 
I never used any drugsamples in my music, but its just about the fact that I wouldnt change my thoughts just cause the rest of the world isnt comfortable with it you know 
and like I said in my previous post, its NOT just about the samples, but about the music itself that makes it for a lot of people drug music...if you search hard enough, you can find LOTS of talkings about drugs also in house, trance or even pop music...and those are not considered drug music simply cause of the style
oh and I just saw your last post...I'm totally not about to fight, just stating my point of view you know...you re totally right that this is not ok, but think a bit further...its not because of the music or samples that most ppl think psychedelic music is drug music, its just because most people listening to psychedelic music ARE taking drugs...simply as it is   https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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psychowave
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 19, 2007 16:56
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the success of psytrance and other electronic sounds is just on the music...is one of few styles when the listeners just keep attention on the music...without lyrics..without any political idea...or any discussions presents on the society...and all words present in your song will get some attention...the producers will be carefully with these words...telling about just drugs, of course the society will view the scene as drug scene...
just be carefully with voice samples on yours sounds...don´t put just a word because that appear "cool" in you sound...
let´s show to the "society" that we thing and compose interesting things...if you tell about drugs...create a concept of what you wanna transmit with a specific word, or phrase....
Drugs are present in the society since the first registers of life, and is a good theme..but lets speak about other thinks too...
psychedelic is the abstract representation...let´s keep this!!!
sorry a bad english!
Regards from Brazil!
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subconsciousmind
SCM
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Posted : Aug 19, 2007 16:59
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Good post, madscientist (just check that I already had edited my post a little before I read yours.)
So what do you suggest to make (uncommercial if you wish) psytrance partys in countries like india or switzerland possible, or at least, easier again?
As a musician, the only part I can do is to avoid something that is completly needless, but which does no good.
As simply as it is.
It absolutely not part of the discussion if house etc. does it. It's just about what psytrance can do to not be extinct or put indoors by the system, to not to have to fight 7billion people.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Aug 19, 2007 17:06
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On 2007-08-19 16:30, subconsciousmind wrote:
There is a lot truth in it, but doesn't apply if the change only affects something which is unneccesairy, dispensable for the subculture.
So are those samples.
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Are you advocating the change because the samples are unnecessary or because you think it affects the way society perceives the samples?
In you original post it seemed like the issue was the latter.
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Whats that got to do with it? I don't now if you are organizing, but here in switzerland, its difficult for any size of event, if it should be outdoors. |
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If you want big commercial festivals, public perception is an issue.
If you prefer small guerilla style underground parties it ain't.
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what? "limit their creativiy"
limiting creativity, by stop using senseless samples? This is actually demanding creativity instead of doing something 100s have done before, which is completly UNcreativ.. man I'm so sorry for your creativity... common, start to argue seriously and not just how its confortable for you.. this comment can't be taken serious and just makes you look stupid, sorry
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I think in some cases drug related samples is creative and they add to the feeling of the track.
In most cases they don't, and I can understand when people object to that.
But not when it's out of concern with the public image of the scene.
Again your original post was not about the fact that you thought that drug samples was uncreative and annoying from your perspective.
If that's now suddenly the topic I can agree, most use of drug samples is cliché and I could do without them as well.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
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subconsciousmind
SCM
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Posted : Aug 19, 2007 17:25
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On 2007-08-19 17:06, Spindrift wrote:
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On 2007-08-19 16:30, subconsciousmind wrote:
There is a lot truth in it, but doesn't apply if the change only affects something which is unneccesairy, dispensable for the subculture.
So are those samples.
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Are you advocating the change because the samples are unnecessary or because you think it affects the way society perceives the samples?
In you original post it seemed like the issue was the latter.
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Both. I say we should avoid the samples, because they make look psytrance bad in public.
And I say we can do that without destroying our subculture, because the samples and names are not a neccessairy part of it. At least not in the actual amount.
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Whats that got to do with it? I don't now if you are organizing, but here in switzerland, its difficult for any size of event, if it should be outdoors. |
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If you want big commercial festivals, public perception is an issue.
If you prefer small guerilla style underground parties it ain't.
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Maybe where you live. But not here.
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Again your original post was not about the fact that you thought that drug samples was uncreative and annoying from your perspective.
If that's now suddenly the topic I can agree, most use of drug samples is cliché and I could do without them as well.
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Its absolutely not the topic, you are right and the one who brought it up with a comment.
Also for you:
what do you suggest to make (uncommercial, small if you wish) psytrance partys in countries like india or switzerland possible, or at least, easier again?
Don't you think avoiding these names and samples would be a small price to pay for us musicians, since that is the only thing (of MANY) we can do?
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 19, 2007 17:29
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with refering to house etc I just wanted to state that its not about the samples you know...I wanted to show you that u can defenately use such samples without that the whole world thinks its drug music
about what we can do as musicians...IMO nothing!
like I said above, as long as the music is psychedelic there will always be people that call it drug music...I even know some ppl who call pink floyd and stuff drug music...
the only thing that could help the scene is when more people would start to take less drugs, and it doesnt look like a drug-basar at each party or festival anymore...do you get what I mean
the thinking of the whole world doesnt come from nowhere...its just because psychedelic music has a lot to do with drugs since hundred, or better thousands of years!
oh and what would help to change this drug-view of the scene a bit also, is being strict with controlling the ages of the people attending parties...I think the view wouldnt be that worse if no persons under age would be there tripping their brains off...
and if you really want total uncommercial parties in such countries, just go deep deep in the woods, dont make any flyer or internet advertise and you got at least 75% it will work 
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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Dark_Dork
IsraTrance Junior Member
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1266
Posted : Aug 19, 2007 17:34
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If the shoe fitz wear it
Dressed to kill you look so right... I am drunk with lust tonite. |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
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Posted : Aug 19, 2007 17:45
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On 2007-08-19 17:29, MadScientist wrote:
with refering to house etc I just wanted to state that its not about the samples you know...I wanted to show you that u can defenately use such samples without that the whole world thinks its drug music
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Of course true, but this is because there are a lot of other facors missing there.
The factor "drugsamples" in psytrance is not the same as in other music, since its the combination of details that makes the difference.
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about what we can do as musicians...IMO nothing!
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Those musicians who were quoted in that newspaper could have. It would have been at least one "black on white" fact less to smite the scene.
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like I said above, as long as the music is psychedelic there will always be people that call it drug music
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Which only applies to people who are into music and not to people who give permissions for parties or write newspaper articles. For them its just noise anyway.
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the thinking of the whole world doesnt come from nowhere...its just because psychedelic music has a lot to do with drugs since hundred, or better thousands of years!
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Of course, but we don't have to tell it everybody, do we?
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and if you really went total uncommercial parties in such countries, just go deep deep in the woods, dont make any flyer or internet advertise and you got at least 75% it will work
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If you live in a country where such places exist, this is easy to say. But here. Everything is small, everything is close, everything, every piece of land belongs to somebody, it's almost impossible to be somehwhere, where you are not noticed. And people here talk..
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
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5306
Posted : Aug 19, 2007 18:03
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lol
i got your idea perfectly good and i just think you are wrong.
i know sometime its hard to accept , cause u are sure that u are right and positive.
but yet , for example in israel , atleast 50% of cops (and soceity) dont even understand english when its on TV not to say throu effects with many insturments in the background.
not to mention cops here just discover liquid lsd jut about 3 years ago lol so the sample is what kills the party ? i just dont think so.
for the rest of the world scene.. well , im non-conformist anywayz 
i meen , when i was into punk , we could dress diffrent and not have our hair in 7 colors , society was more open to us im sure , but then we loose the identity and miss the point.
once there are 0% drugs in those parties (not samples , the actual substence , and thos damm free-mind-hippies) it wil be 100% ok with society and police.
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Aug 19, 2007 18:12
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On 2007-08-19 17:25, subconsciousmind wrote:
Also for you:
what do you suggest to make (uncommercial, small if you wish) psytrance partys in countries like india or switzerland possible, or at least, easier again?
Don't you think avoiding these names and samples would be a small price to pay for us musicians, since that is the only thing (of MANY) we can do? |
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Pretty much since I came in to the scene in the late 80's most good parties I've been to have been illegal events in the forest/jungle.
Since mid 90's we had a dedicated full time police force in Sweden that was called the "rave comission" which managed to pretty much stop the parties.
Nowadays the most parties I go to only has about 100 ppl due to the fact that if you promote the party other than word of mouth it will get busted.
Still I think they are better parties than the big festivals in Germany where the authorities is more lenient.
Also the parties in Goa used to be illegal events, but slowly it became more and more of a commercial system where the police wanted more and more bribes.
Now it seems to be the intent of the politicians to stop the parties, and the system there is getting less corrupt and it's not as easy to bribe any more.
What do do about it?
Keep making small parties...it cost about the same to throw a party for 100 ppl as it cost to go to voov.
The scene is not clean regardless of how much we would self-censor samples.
I think it's too much drugs unfortunately, but even if you almost get rid of them it is a psychedelic culture and is branded as such from the public.
Actually some parties in Sweden is fairly clean, and the cops have made busts taking in many people for urin samples with hardly no positives. That only seems to make them frustrated and try harder next time instead of leaving us alone. That's their mentality...they are not happy if they cannot find drugs, they are happy if they find them.
And since even mushrooms and cannabis remains prohibited the laws is obviously screwed up.
Instead of pretending like everything is fine and just removing any references to them to try to avoid conflict we should seek conflict. We should challenge system instead of subduing IMO.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 19, 2007 18:22
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On 2007-08-19 17:45, subconsciousmind wrote:
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On 2007-08-19 17:29, MadScientist wrote:
with refering to house etc I just wanted to state that its not about the samples you know...I wanted to show you that u can defenately use such samples without that the whole world thinks its drug music
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Of course true, but this is because there are a lot of other facors missing there.
The factor "drugsamples" in psytrance is not the same as in other music, since its the combination of details that makes the difference.
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agree there sometimes it is, but sometimes also not...
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about what we can do as musicians...IMO nothing!
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Those musicians who were quoted in that newspaper could have. It would have been at least one "black on white" fact less to smite the scene.
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let me guess, those artists there were for example 1200mics with their first album
this is really a way how it should not be, with samples like "lets all take some mescaline"
but like I said, imo there are much more real-world factors then just plain samples in the music going on parties
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like I said above, as long as the music is psychedelic there will always be people that call it drug music
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Which only applies to people who are into music and not to people who give permissions for parties or write newspaper articles. For them its just noise anyway.
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nope, on that I cant agree...there are defenately persons in such positions who got a bit of a clue about music and defenately music scenes...u know, even the psy-scene is already pretty known for some authorities here in germany at least
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the thinking of the whole world doesnt come from nowhere...its just because psychedelic music has a lot to do with drugs since hundred, or better thousands of years!
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Of course, but we don't have to tell it everybody, do we?
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no offending here, but you dont need to tell this anyone...the ppl just need to come to the festivals and after 20m going on the ground they know whats going on
worst factor there is "stupid" kids almost flying around on drugs and a lot of fucked up drug dealers walking around all the time asking each and everybody, no matter how he looks, "do you want some lsd, mdma, mushrooms, hashish, weed, speed etc etc"
IMO this is much much worse than telling it anyone, cause at festivals here in germany at least its already a bit common that the folks from the next village get free entrance to look at things (and to make it a bit easier for the organizers to "take" the people their bad thoughts about the festival) for example fullmoon or voov, and I have seen exactly such folks from the next village getting asked if they want some lsd...I mean WTF?!
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and if you really went total uncommercial parties in such countries, just go deep deep in the woods, dont make any flyer or internet advertise and you got at least 75% it will work
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If you live in a country where such places exist, this is easy to say. But here. Everything is small, everything is close, everything, every piece of land belongs to somebody, it's almost impossible to be somehwhere, where you are not noticed. And people here talk..
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like I said above, I'm living in germany and I cant really say authorities here are lame in fucking up illegal parties or defending drug abuse, but this kind of parties is still possible here...its just the way you do it
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 19, 2007 18:47
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On 2007-08-19 18:03, tsabeat wrote:
once there are 0% drugs in those parties (not samples , the actual substence , and thos damm free-mind-hippies) it wil be 100% ok with society and police.
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you got the point
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On 2007-08-19 18:12, Spindrift wrote:
Nowadays the most parties I go to only has about 100 ppl due to the fact that if you promote the party other than word of mouth it will get busted.
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yeap thats how it is unfortunately
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 19, 2007 19:06
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References to drugs in music have always existed. To deny 'heritage' and new directions in music that drugs have influenced is far more irresponsible than using drug samples.
I'm not saying all dance music requires such samples, but why should I adjust my artwork for the conformity of society.
Jimi Hendrix - Purple Haze..
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
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1033
Posted : Aug 19, 2007 19:20
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@sattle,
First you can't compare your country to others.
Second, nobody says that the samples and the names kill the party, its just one more unneccessairy thing that adds up to an image which is negative.
@MadScientist,
Certainly there is a lot of drugs, its the reality, true.
But I rather like people say: "it's a scene where they take drugs" then: "It's a scene where the music tells them to take drugs and they do".
I believe that we agree, that such a thing like the 1200mics album, especially cause popular, really wasn't such a smart thing.
Here, depending the region, it has become difficult to impossible for parties from 50 people up.
@Spindrift,
So you have similar problems in sweden, also with small partys. And also you say that there are even almost clean partys... so, the thing is, I'd like the government to see this side of psytrance, the positive side and I believe it is possible to make them understand, that there is nothing to be afraid of, if the party is organized well (age, information). We just had a party like this here. One of the best ever, well organized, perfect vibe, completely integrated in local society, believe it or not. Albums like the 1200mic just don't help.
I respect your opinion in seeking the conflict. I think thats a choice one can make. I personally am trying to launch a project here, which should bring up a more positive image and more consciousness within and outside the scene. Nothing to do with adapting anything crucial. But, its really not helping me when local TV films at a commercial event just in the moment where they play PsySex stuttering L S D and then show it in the news.
Tomos, of course they've always existed, so what, so have child abusers. No reason not to question it just because it was alwas there.
Nobody is denying heritage or new directions, what drug are you on?
Why should you adjust? Why should you do something, which is anyway overused and not a core element in music, when it can really do bad to the scene and its development?
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 19, 2007 19:29
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I can really understand your point mate, but the only thing I can say is that leaving such samples out of the music wont help much, especially when this image is already established...you know, you cant go to the world and say: look we dont use drug names and samples anymore, so the scene is better now
do you get what I mean?
about the tv, I think a voice saying lsd or something wouldnt be that hard if there were no few hundred fucked up freaks in front of the camera...
like I said before, it is MUCH more about the scene itself, than about its music
and for the music tells them to take drugs, thats a bit out of it imo...nobody, maybe except some stupid raver kids (that have nothing to do there like I said above), would just take drugs just because somebody in the track says lsd...I think even authorities should know that, or would you go and get some crack if anyone in a track shouts "lets all take some crack man"
this is simply a part of the music, and since music is more like a story than real life, this cant be an excuse nor reason or whatever to see that this is a drug scene...the world just thinks this is a drug scene cause it IS a drug scene, and as long as it is like I explained above, nothing will change in their views https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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