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Some questions about mixing
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ohm mind
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
66
Posted : Jan 17, 2013 15:10:45
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Hi everyone,
I come from Belgium and I make Goa Trance since five years on FL Studio.
I have some questions about mixing for find the perfect way with not too much waste of time to process the track !
I have a track now finish for all structure and synthesis .
So ....
First :
Import all the track on wav file without any effect ? no delay , no reverb , etc....
Just little Eq for low-mid in some lead? Also , I work on 48 000 , I keep that ? Maybe after the mixing I go on 44 100?
Second:
What's the first thing to do ? Eq all the track?
Is there an order for exemple : 1=EQ , 2 = Distortion , 3= Compressor ?
Third:
For delay and reverb , we just use the same for the whole track with send effect?
We also use very little reverb(still the same reverb?) on Kick/Snare/HH/....?
Fourst:
Do you use two compressor for a lead ?
One four the volume , no peak , no too much variation on volume
And one for have more Fat song
Real or not ?
Fifth:
We make panning at end ? when all volume is ok so?
I hope it's not too long for you but I think it's good for all to learn this.
At beginning , I was thinking mixing and mastering was th same but we must make the mixing ourself!
For people who want to listen some of my track for other advices , I take it  :
https://soundcloud.com/ohm-mind/gods-told-me-a-story
https://soundcloud.com/ohm-mind/indian-spirit-work-in
https://soundcloud.com/ohm-mind/tribal-years
Thanks a lor for your futur answer !
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Alien Bug
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
682
Posted : Jan 17, 2013 16:03
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1 - mix in 44,1kHz or 88,2kHz - this is standard in music industry. 48/96kHz is a standard in movies/tv industry. for 99% conversion from 48 to 44,1 will destroy your sound because it is very difficult to divide from 48kHz.
2- there is no rules. everyone has its own way to do that so everyone will tell you different way to do that
3-like above, there is no rules. ok, reverb on send for whole track is a good way, it is a standard, but you still can use other reverbs on channels. in most cases in EDM people dont use reverb on kick/bass - but it is not hard rule
4-do what you want, you can use 0 or 5 compressors if it sounds good. 'one for have more Fat song' - you will no get FAT sound by using compressors (maybe some character compressors will do that). to fat sound you have to use proper EQ, tape saturators etc
5-like always, there is no rules. but here is a question what panning law you use. if you use for example: -6dB pan law, then every sound, when pushed to L/R will lose gain (-6dB on hard left/right)
Ps. prepare for many different answers 
 http://www.beatport.com/release/cross-the-atoms/1042450
http://soundcloud.com/alien-bug
http://www.facebook.com/ali3nBug |
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knocz
Moderator
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1151
Posted : Jan 17, 2013 16:55
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Long question -> long answer. I'm going to try to give you the big picture about mixing first:
You've got your ideas set out. You've got your song concept, your melody, harmony and rhythm, your sound design and instrumentation, you've got your stems recorded with great performances and good equipment (if applied) and you've defined your song structure and density. So, you've got everything, and you want to mix it.
To mix everything is to get a good placement for the sounds, and a good balance. In the end, the stems are processed and added together, so you must know your tools in order to process them to your liking. This mix processing should be decoupled from the sound design processing (I don't do this->I'm lazy), so you can use a compressor in a mix to control a sounds dynamics, but in the sound design as something different (like using a filter with the resonance to the max to get a laser sound, and then heavy compression to bring it back down to earth - then you can take this laser and process it further, adding more compressors and etc). In the mix, the sound is already defined, you just want to place it with the other sounds so it sounds good (never forgetting each sound in the mix is always relative to another, so something loud can be small if everything else is even louder).
While making psy trance, we have a lot of pre-known concepts, that someone is expecting to hear from a psy track -> and this knowledge is everywhere, in every track that is labeled as psy trance, you just need to listen. For example: you must have a kick and a bass making up the beat, and your beat must be right in front of you, occupying the whole low end of the mix, being dead center. Another example: respecting the previous, you can do whatever you want in the mix, going for a natural balance to something completely bizarre and odd, as everything goes. You might even think I'm BS'ing you, and on purpose make the beat stereo, or put something in the lows too, or using the bass for the mids (has been done before many times), however you cant deviate from these concepts very much or it won't sound like the traditional psy, and your changes must be subtle - if you can get it happening, you'll have your thing, you'll be redefining what is traditional and you'll bring something new to the scene. One thing that's very common in normal music is to have a static snare, this is, the snare is at the same place all the time -> but put an LFO on the snare pan, another on the transpose, a flanger and a LFO on a BP filter, and your snare will be all over the mix. Get it done sounding right, and you've broken the normal rules, and with luck the audience will like this (but too much innovation can be too much).
That said,
First - you don't want your stems to have too much processing, as you cant undo it. If it's supposed to have a delay, than keep it there, if the delay is to be adjusted according to the mix density, then take it off and put it in only in the mix. However don't confuse mixing with producing, mixing you try to add everything up, producing you can be adding a bunch of new sounds or generate new sounds musically (like buildups and breaks)
Second - The mix is relative, so start with something and start building it relative to your initial thing. Also, don't spend too much time just listening to your tune, listen to someone else's tunes (close to what you want) so you can compare. If you want a good "generic mixing effects", than take a look at good analogue mixing consoles and see what each channel has (usually a volume fader, an 3 band parametric EQ, some sends, and a compressor). About the order, well, each order makes a different result, try to understand why that happens and what each effect does, and you'll get there You can use the compressor to add fatness, another to control the peaks, and another to expand the result.
Third - Reverb is a huge question. If you've got stems that were recorded in the same studio, with quality recordings, than the automatically sound like they were played in the same room. However, you've got external samples, movie vocals, digital and analogue synths, some even without reverb. you can use a reverb unit on a send to help make the sounds seem like they were played in the same place, so define what you mean by "place" in your concept. Are your drums supposed to be played in a drum room? Put your drums in the according place. Is there supposed to be one section with a break, and you are supposed to be like under water? you know what to do. Do you want some more consistency in the general room placement? use a master reverb (but I don't recommend that, as you can easily mud up everything and get it all wrong). In the mixing, the idea is to re-use the reverbs and apply them in groups, so it's normal to not have to many (but you can always bypass normality).
Fourth - I can use as many compressors as I want, but try to think of whats happening. there's not much point in having two equal compressors one after each other -> say the ratio is 2:1, then this will be the same as only one compressor with a ratio of 4:1. But if you change the threshold on the second, than you can have more control, as when the peak is above both thresholds, the ratio is 4:1, but when the peak is over only on the threshold, the ratio is 2:1. Just try not to put compressors (or any effect) just for the sake of it, think beforehand what you want to achieve - you can quicker make a sound way fatter by delaying one side up to 30 ms than by using a compressor.
Fifth - What is panning? The idea of having a sound be in the center of a little to the side is an illusion: there are two sound sources, and a specific sounds played at an equal volume on both sides will appear in the center; lower the volume on one side, and it will appear to be placed more to the opposite side. So, panning only changes (lowers) the volume on one of the signals. Now, two people speaking at a certain volume will make more sound as only one person, as the sound are added. So, if you pan something hard, you will be lowering the overall volume of that sound, so your relative volumes will be all messed up. The answer is, you must be tweaking a whole bunch of things to get something mixed right on the spot you wan't it to be, there's no specific time to do panning or etc. However, you can still have a plan, and decide "now I'm going to do the horizontal placement", and go for it, and after you must check everything else. Say you've cut some frequencies on one sound because something better is playing on top of it -> if you place one sound to the left and another to the right, you might need to adjust there frequencies, because now each one has more space to play in. Essentially, each stereo signal is an independent signal.
Happy mixing! Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz |
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Padmapani
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
431
Posted : Jan 17, 2013 17:13
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hi, nice to see an increasing number of people producing goa trance, i'm also one of them
i'm no pro and produce for a similar amount of time, but it's surely interesting to see how different people do the same stuff.
1. i mix in the original track with almost all tracks still in midi. things like delay and reverb i'll add while still writing the track, because sometimes these things are an integral part of the overall sound. a lead can sound flat and boring without fx but gorgous with some heavy delay and some reverb.
2. that totally depends, but usually it's: everything else -> eq -> compressor
3. i usually have 1-4 different reverb sends. one as "main" reverb for the track, most of the time one for the hats (sometimes a longer one for the crash), sometimes a filtered version of the main reverb for kick (usually good at the start of a break) and/or bass and sometimes a longer reverb for the breaks/special effects.
4. i try to avoid compression and rarely use it on a lead, and then only to control some spikes in volume i find i cannot control otherwise. if i can achieve the same results by tweaking the synth, i find it usually sounds cleaner and more alive.
5. again, i do this during sequencing. if i did this at the end i'd have to eq out frequency conflicts that are later resolved through panning.
i hope this gave you some interesting ideas that improve your workflow with mixing |
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Cosmo Circle
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
30
Posts :
57
Posted : Jan 17, 2013 19:19
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Hello Ohm Mind,
You shouldnt change sample rate while producing...specialy while mixing (!)
but it doesnt matter if you produce at 44, 48 or even 96 khz, the only big thing about it, is that your computer will expend more cpu as you increase the sample rate...
but about mixing...
i think the secret for a great mix is on the balance and to place the elements properly in a way they all sound clear on the entire spectrum range,
You should keep in mind that between 20 hz and the 20000, there is alot of range to place stuff, sometimes i see people unecessarly putting similar kinds of synths, like layered stuff in very similar frequencies and when that happens, it tends to null each other or make the sound blury... muddy some how.
Considering the very crowded mixes as its usual on goa trance music, you should try to simplify...
try to not use effect´s on incerts, but try to make 4 or 5 send chanels to turn your mixing more clear and easy
i usaly work with the following Send's setup:
1. small room reverb Send to add brightness and stereofield to elements
2. a warmer and fat chorus for turn the sounds wider
3. a long and infinit Hall reverb to increase the atmosphere image of the sound.
4. compressor with setup to add punch in mono
i known many producers who work with send delay´s, but personaly i enjoy to use diferent kind of delays, so i used them on channel's as Inserts.
i still think the better way to archieve a good mixing is to combine all the elements toghether, try to make a loop of every element on your music and try to make it sound clear everyting, with everything playing at same time, i know it sounds dificult and a mess, but if you manage to make it sound properly with everything playing at same time, then it means you have the track nicely balanced and you can mix it without major concerns...
this is also quite usefull to avoid dissonance on a musical composition, checking all the elements at once, if your track is composed right...it will sound good.
(this about the mixing)
about the other questions, its all pretty subjective and there isnt any rule or base concept to follow, it depends alot on what you want to do...
But i only recomend people to use compressors if they known what they are dealing with, a compressor can be excelent to a mix, but it can also ruin it, and its much more easy to ruin it, than the oposite, so... if you dont feel confortable using them, do a research, try your best to understand their nature, otherwise you will risk to use them in a way you will mess things up.
have a nice day.
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Jan 18, 2013 00:49
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there is not much point to use 48000 sampling rates mate.. if you use sample these are probably 44,1 so you get a quality loss there .
48000 may sound a lil better for monitoring and recording synths depending your soundcard/converters but not worth the hassle to me.
after it s about taste but if you want best quality you should have the best sounds rigth from the begining, as soon as you ear something wrong you fix it and you make things sound like it s good enought for release , from the first sound you make in the daw
also i think you ask yourself too much question, there is no rule for most of your question |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
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Posted : Jan 18, 2013 01:22
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Quote:
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On 2013-01-18 00:49, PoM wrote:
after it s about taste but if you want best quality you should have the best sounds rigth from the begining, as soon as you ear something wrong you fix it and you make things sound like it s good enought for release , from the first sound you make in the daw
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what matter a lot is the source sound, if you tweak your sources to sound good with things that are not right.. the source won't be optimal , you will have to use extra processing or even remake the source sound at a later stage.
you need a good kick/ bassline, that will lead to a good beat that will lead to well balanced leads and pads ect with less hassle . |
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ohm mind
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
66
Posted : Jan 19, 2013 19:32
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Thanks everyone for all your comment and advice!
it's great to see how people work
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