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So I'm looking for a kick drum this morning...
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Dec 23, 2011 07:38
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alajarvela
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
130
Posted : Dec 23, 2011 09:48
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And this is where I ask for a copy of the said kick plugin. I'm impressed with Bazzism but you can't keep that live in the project, it always has to be sampled since it doesn't stay the same through the song which is kinda irritating. |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Dec 23, 2011 11:17
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You certainly can, I'm not at my computer ATM but I can put it up later, HOWEVER, I'd be remiss to not say that if you own Largo, Massive, Zebra, Surge or any synth with decent routing and Osc retrigger then you can almost certainly get very good, rock steady results already.
I use largo and massive for all my kick drums.
The only kick drum generator including my own which beats these is IMHO ultrabeat - which is Mac only and hobbled by a sequencer I personally don't get on with.
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Dec 23, 2011 11:48
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^
I remember you mentioned a couple of times that the best thing would be 5 instances of Ableton's Operator. Do you still feel that way? And, more importantly, do you still think one needs five instances, or 1-2 would suffice? |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Dec 23, 2011 12:01
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Well, I don't use ableton anymore so that does limit my options ... But even b4 I switched away from live I'd stopped using operator for kicks - the results I was getting in other synths seemed better to me - cleaner, somehow.
Most of my kick drums are synthesised with 2-3 layers. 2 layered kicks tend to have an obvious crossover, and I tend to do this in Massive as it has two filters and 3 envelopes that are properly spare. For kicks with 3 layers I use largo because it's multitimbral. The third layer is used to beef up a section of the mids. You can make huge kicks like this - maybe too big! The envelopes are also exceptionally well suited to this task.
Massive has a much quicker and easier to tweak interface which is why I use it for the two layer kicks over largo - macro knobs are very useful for very fine tweaking!
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Dec 23, 2011 12:46
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Obviously its down to taste but for the last year I have been working on the single oscillator kick sound I get from Ultrabeat and then mess around to find the sweet spots in conjunction with the bassline.
The thing with Ultrabeat is not only that it is very programmable, but it just sounds so f@cking good as well. 4 years of kick programming on it and I still come back to it and pleasantly surprise my self.
You can go from the really plasticky sounding kicks, to the rubbery ones to the ones that had friends of mine thinking it was the genuine sound of a VCF in self oscillation and modulated with the Doepfer A-140 ADSR. 
I don't think there is that one golden kick sound for trance tracks, I think there are loads of different sounding kicks that carry a big thump, yet change wildly in character.
Making my own kicks is imperative to the vibe of the track, after all, besides the bassline, its the one loud element of the mix that plays through out the track.
On top of that, I have been using tuned 808 style kicks for basslines in techno tracks where I generally do some layering of different grooves from the sub, up to the low mids combining different elements of bass timbres to get one massive bottom end groove that is made up of different elements.
Peace out.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Dec 23, 2011 13:01
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There is a technical reason that I don't like single layer licks -and bear in mind just how much I've thought about this having released several single layer kick synths, not saying single layer kicks are wrong, just why I don't employ them at all anymore and employ methods which have other audible side effects, but IMO less severe ones.
The bass section of a single layer kick is always out of sync. It's inevitable. It drives me nuts.
It bothers me less (but is still there) in other peoples music, but when I try and produce against it, it literally drives me mental. Interestingly, since I stopped using single layer kicks, I haven't had to adjust the track delay on a bass patch. Not once.
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Dec 23, 2011 13:33
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Quote:
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On 2011-12-23 13:01, Speakafreaka wrote:
The bass section of a single layer kick is always out of sync. It's inevitable. It drives me nuts.
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You mean that the "body" of the kick always comes after the click and the thump - both of which inevitably take some time?
Why did you quit Ableton? Wasn't it you who has created whole tracks using nothing but Live's native plugins? |
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PsiloCybian
Mammal Footwork
Started Topics :
92
Posts :
557
Posted : Dec 23, 2011 13:49
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Dec 23, 2011 13:52
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Quote:
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On 2011-12-23 13:01, Speakafreaka wrote:
The bass section of a single layer kick is always out of sync. It's inevitable. It drives me nuts.
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You mean out of sync because of the msecs it takes to sweep down to the bottom end?
I don't mind that, if that is what you are talking about.
I am so used to it from listening to it through out the years that its something that I find absolutely normal and actually like.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Dec 23, 2011 14:02
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Yes, the sweep time, if you bounce a 100hz filtered version you'll see how bad it can be - horses for courses obviously, but I utterly hate that feel to produce against, led me to constantly be 'improving' the kick and bass because they never felt right. No one wants to get dragged out of creative mode by stuff like that.
I quit ableton because I found it to be a buggy resource hog with substandard non-compliant VST implementation that caused one to many problems and just turned into a hindrance rather than an aid to my writing.
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Dec 23, 2011 14:06
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Quote:
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On 2011-12-23 14:02, Speakafreaka wrote:
Yes, the sweep time, if you bounce a 100hz filtered version you'll see how bad it can be
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I am not going to do that because it sounds fine to me as it is and if I see what it is you are talking about, I might start not liking what I hear
Peace out.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Dec 23, 2011 14:22
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worth experimentating with a pulse and some filtered noise it can work really good for the attack click, it give a more commercial sound that may be not suited for psy and full on when it s too evident but when it s keep transparent it can work nicely , also saturation to get a smoother more hifi sounding attack. amp attack should be tweaked with lot of care too |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Dec 23, 2011 14:27
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I use a good ol TR hat, again tuned, shortened and mixed in enough to give some nice sparkle to the whole thing...like a drummer plays the closed hat on top of the kick kinda thing. I like that. TR 909/808 and recently TR-606 hat samples are giving me results made of win!
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Dec 23, 2011 14:27
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On 2011-12-23 14:06, disco hooligans wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-12-23 14:02, Speakafreaka wrote:
Yes, the sweep time, if you bounce a 100hz filtered version you'll see how bad it can be
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I am not going to do that because it sounds fine to me as it is and if I see what it is you are talking about, I might start not liking what I hear
Peace out.
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Haha! Very wise; pandora's box and all that!
Also, bear in mind I think the ideal kick is the early Neurocide/Evilution Lab 4 NRG kick ... And I'm serious. Their kicks made everything else sound silly at the time and in some ways still do IMO.
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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