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So how are yoy feeling about narco-violence?

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IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  65
Posts :  1704
Posted : Sep 17, 2008 19:00:30
Hi people, i wanna ask how do you feel with all the recent violence made by the drug cartels, how is going in your city?           "The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures."
kin beat
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  62
Posts :  953
Posted : Sep 18, 2008 02:20
I m gonna quote you in order to get my answer to make sense to you.

Quote:

On 2008-09-17 18:59, Login wrote:
what the movie presents is really true, things here in mexico are really awfull with mafia controlling a lot of the police.

On monday national independence day was being celebrated, in Morelia one of mexico 10 biggest cities, while the celebration was being held in the main square of the city two grandes exploded killing 8 and injuring one hundred, its terrorism by the mafia, they are openly defyng the goverment and society.




Even when its a not a negotiable matter within the isratrance forum (politics). I'd give you my answer regarding this important topic.

At the moment, we Mexicans are struggling with one of the biggest issues any country could go through. A war within the system that rule our own economy and therefore our lives...

The "reform" that everyone is talking about to decide whether we get to delegate our oil to foreign companies or we get to research and develop our own oil industry. How many times have we seen, this sort of terror induced plans, being used by our own government to make and take decisions to pass laws or referendums ???
Mexicans, we all agree that it hurt our communities, it hurt our dignity, to the point of where we can't just sit down and stand with our arms crossed.
Military police on the streets, even when we all know has never worked in the pass and many fascist issues had been written in history of human kind. We all feel somehow protected by them, a feeling, that we don't get from our corrupted police departments.
Talking to my grandpa about all this issues we felt somehow indignation, due to the fact that nobody believes that for example "la banda de la rosa" actually were the ones that kidnap the son of Mr Marti, unfortunately the lack of professionalism from our public servers on charge of the law system, just doesn't work. We are famous for our "chivo expiatorio" who will always appear like out of the sleeve to shut peoples voices and questions regarding insecurity, i feel sorry for Mr Marti and the resolution he's been given....
If we add at top of it the corrupted education we are given in public universities where politics are also managed, for instance Guadalajara. Then you get to the point where some of this or some of that just doesn't matter to you, its too much to handled, why should I care about all this??

so, I m a human being goddammit!!!!

let me get home and watch TV while all my cares go up and smoke!!!!

Yeah, its what I think they want us to get, they don't want us to think, they dont want us to decide whether or not we can become a better country or not, with or without them, Mexico is not our Government, Mexico is each and everyone of its citizens, and finally we are getting tired of being fooled so as it goes, we should be hearing about more and more violence around the corner, to destabilized our so call society and not just increase the fear within us but against us.....


read this for understanding purposes....

Official definitions determine counter-terrorism policy and are often developed to serve it. Most government definitions outline the following key criteria: target, objective, motive, perpetrator, and legitimacy or legality of the act. Terrorism is also often recognizable by a following statement from the perpetrators.

Violence – According to Walter Laqueur of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, "the only general characteristic of terrorism generally agreed upon is that terrorism involves violence and the threat of violence." However, the criterion of violence alone does not produce a useful definition, as it includes many acts not usually considered terrorism: war, riot, organized crime, or even a simple assault. Property destruction that does not endanger life is not usually considered a violent crime, but some have described property destruction by the Earth Liberation Front and Animal Liberation Front as violence and terrorism; see eco-terrorism.

Psychological impact and fear – The attack was carried out in such a way as to maximize the severity and length of the psychological impact. Each act of terrorism is a “performance,” devised to have an impact on many large audiences. Terrorists also attack national symbols to show their power and to shake the foundation of the country or society they are opposed to. This may negatively affect a government's legitimacy, while increasing the legitimacy of the given terrorist organization and/or ideology behind a terrorist act.

Perpetrated for a political goal – Something all terrorist attacks have in common is their perpetration for a political purpose. Terrorism is a political tactic, not unlike letter writing or protesting, that is used by activists when they believe no other means will effect the kind of change they desire. The change is desired so badly that failure is seen as a worse outcome than the deaths of civilians. This is often where the interrelationship between terrorism and religion occurs. When a political struggle is integrated into the framework of a religious or "cosmic" struggle, such as over the control of an ancestral homeland or holy site such as Israel and Jerusalem, failing in the political goal (nationalism) becomes equated with spiritual failure, which, for the highly committed, is worse than their own death or the deaths of innocent civilians.

Deliberate targeting of non-combatants – It is commonly held that the distinctive nature of terrorism lies in its intentional and specific selection of civilians as direct targets. Specifically, the criminal intent is shown when babies, children, mothers, and the elderly are murdered, or injured, and put in harm's way. Much of the time, the victims of terrorism are targeted not because they are threats, but because they are specific "symbols, tools, animals or corrupt beings" that tie into a specific view of the world that the terrorist possess. Their suffering accomplishes the terrorists' goals of instilling fear, getting a message out to an audience, or otherwise accomplishing their often radical religious and political ends.

Disguise – Terrorists almost invariably pretend to be non-combatants, hide among non-combatants, fight from in the midst of non-combatants, and when they can, strive to mislead and provoke the government soldiers into attacking the wrong people, that the government may be blamed for it. When an enemy is identifiable as a combatant, the word terrorism is rarely used.

Unlawfulness or illegitimacy – Some official (notably government) definitions of terrorism add a criterion of illegitimacy or unlawfulness to distinguish between actions authorized by a government (and thus "lawful") and those of other actors, including individuals and small groups. Using this criterion, actions that would otherwise qualify as terrorism would not be considered terrorism if they were government sanctioned. For example, firebombing a city, which is designed to affect civilian support for a cause, would not be considered terrorism if it were authorized by a "legitimate" government. This criterion is inherently problematic and is not universally accepted, because: it denies the existence of state terrorism; the same act may or may not be classed as terrorism depending on whether its sponsorship is traced to a "legitimate" government; "legitimacy" and "lawfulness" are subjective, depending on the perspective of one government or another; and it diverges from the historically accepted meaning and origin of the term.
For these reasons this criterion is not universally accepted. Most dictionary definitions of the term do not include this criterion.

What happened in Morelia more than a terrorist attack it was against our social stability, choosing a state where cartels have hidden under government protection for years....
so things got out of control between them as we will pay their fuck ups.....

We have to stand!

no matter if we cant track everything they do to keep on their agenda, to clean the mafia out of our streets, we need to clean our government first .....
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Forza
Forza

Started Topics :  68
Posts :  397
Posted : Sep 18, 2008 22:31
As this is a serious issue I guess it's important to discuss it, but just let's try to avoid mentioning political parties, etc.

thanks for understanding!           Peace, Love, Light and Harmony
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IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  65
Posts :  1704
Posted : Sep 19, 2008 05:03
@ kinbeat, before I continue to develop some ideas around this topic, I just wanna say that the problem of narcoviolence has little to zero relation to oil industry or even deep economic problems (poverty and inequality are a good growing ground for organized crime but they're not enough as there are countries with bigger poverty problems that hasnt developed big mafias).

Mafias exist all around the world as rich and powerfull as mexican ones in Italy, USA, Russia, Brazil and some other places, but not as violent. Why here?

Its a big concern why they have become so violent in recent years and the speed they are destroying by corruption our fragile justice institutions.

And I think one cause they are so powerfull here is beacuse we're next the biggest drug consumer country and our justice system (police and courts) that have been without reform and modernization for a long time, designed for an old authoritarian regime that no longer can control it.

Maxico must start saying USA loud and clear that "the war on drugs" is lost and we need to stop mafias money engine by legalization, before its too late and they can overthrow the State and we finish in civil war like Colombia or Afghanistan.


And second we need to reform justice system:













          "The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures."
kin beat
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  62
Posts :  953
Posted : Sep 19, 2008 08:22
login, think you did got that wrong, so i will clarify this point to you, I did not meant that they had something to do with each other and whatnot, basically what I m trying to say is that our government is pleased to distract our attention from so many issues that we should care about, such as the ones I mentioned. however we are on a position where we should think what is the priority, what people would claim is most important? while some others keep working on what they have to, hope you get where I m getting at......

so hope we get to talk about this and many other shit this weekend at the FFNC 3 party man...



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sankha


Started Topics :  9
Posts :  53
Posted : Sep 19, 2008 22:44
I know that this is not an issue to be treated here as Forza said, but i have to give my quick opinion hihihi:

kin beat im completely with you.. maybe this will sound like out of a star wars movie hehe, but we are entering more deeply in an dark era, where "shows" and "performances" take place shamelessly to distract our attention, this is an old formula used by fascist goverments along the history, and is not a secret, we only need to make a little research and we will see that this is a story that has been repeting itself over and over worldwide.. Now, in this time, we have to really open our eyes and we will see that the signs are everywhere.

The positive thing after all, is that this situations (sad situations of course) makes us to remember that together we (the people that holds this country) are the light, the truth and the change, lets keep the words low and the actions high, there is a seed in everyone of us

** Peace & Love **
(im not a hippie hehe but this are the 2 things that i really wish 4 everybody )          :: Sounds of Earth ::
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Synaesthesia


Started Topics :  0
Posts :  31
Posted : Nov 11, 2008 09:58
We all know govs want to keep the narc monopoly for them, if we are living violent episodes is just because the official political mafia is supporting 100% the Sinaloa Cartel that fights against the other cartels. Being the Zetas the most powerfull.
And i believe that if we want a rat's and pig's free country we need to start right on the political minority that is selling out the country.

Yeah those sick miserable bastards
darkodelik
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  16
Posts :  77
Posted : Nov 26, 2008 18:20
i think the cause of the violence is because usa wants to take control of the busines cocaine , just like afganistan with the opium, but i think i will ne ver happen this ,
_mariO
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  50
Posts :  1370
Posted : Dec 16, 2008 03:56
what the hell is this topic has to do with trance music?

:lol1:
_mariO
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  50
Posts :  1370
Posted : Dec 16, 2008 03:57
jorge
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  18
Posts :  50
Posted : Mar 2, 2009 18:17
legalize marihuana!. and lsd .
avoid other drugs!.




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NoFe

Started Topics :  1
Posts :  34
Posted : Jun 30, 2009 12:12
Peace.LoVe
Trance Forum » » Forum  Mexico - So how are yoy feeling about narco-violence?
 
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