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Small Studio Monitors
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Cardinals Cartel
Black Machine
Started Topics :
191
Posts :
3097
Posted : May 20, 2012 14:18
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I think if Mr. Svampe will bring us more detail's about the real size of the room so/Then we can see the all picture .
Just moved from 10m X 5m X 10m X 5m studio To 3m X 3m X 3m X 3m , I feel no need more then 5" , Sure its enough .
M8 .. This is not about high vol and so (We dont want bomb our ears) , This is all about effect's Thats all - How high and powerfull you can bring your sound .
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xoC
Cubic Spline
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
179
Posted : May 20, 2012 14:56
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Quote:
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Also I do firmly believe (and actually I am experiencing this) that good 12"-13" speakers in a small room with good acoustic treatment will play MUCH better than these compromise 5" or 6" monitors without low end. So many tracks are coming to me for mastering that have only kick with subs and bass is playing somewhere in the middle - because people do not even know about this dis balance between subs. And there is a whole musical octave between 55 and 27 Hz that people can utilize because someone once adviced to go with 5" shit control.
Stop making compromise decisions! You can build simple, pretty cheap acoustic treatment, get monitors with proper response and finally work! This will change your life 
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+1
My Room is treated with acoustical foam on the ceiling (cannot do a cloud, rented place) and 29 bass traps.
I was a little bit afraid when getting my PMC MB1 monitors (3 way with 12" woofers in a transmission line : it goes down to 20hz, -6dB, and huge dispersion at mid/high frequencies) that they will be to big for my room (18.2m² : 5.2m x 3.5m).
Speaker placement was a little bit tricky : 5cm can do a lot of changes in the bass response. I had to move half of the bass traps also, and spend 3 days doing a lot a measurements, moving things ...
It's now working like a charm, with in room response to 18hz (at the same level as 100hz).
I still have some ringing/peak @ 33 Hz (+5dB, room length mode, will need tuned traps to kill that) and a hole @ 70Hz (-8dB, but narrow) (it's the first ceiling/floor mode, cannot do a lot of things about it without a proper cloud ...), but the rest of the response is flat.
We always see people telling "if your speakers goes really low, it will show a lot of acoustical problems in the low-end, and can be a harder place to work than with small monitors who do no excite the first room modes".
It's crap.
I see that now, in room response for the 50-250hz is waaayyyyy better with the PMC than what I was ever able to have with my mackies HR824, and I tried every f*ck*n position in the room !
 http://www.storm-mastering.com |
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makus
Overdream
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
3087
Posted : May 20, 2012 15:05
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totally correct. even you have those small problems with bass - you _know_ about them and if you know your room you are able to do perfect mixes.
www.overdreamstudio.com |
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xoC
Cubic Spline
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
179
Posted : May 20, 2012 15:06
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Yes !
And this bump @ 30hz is cool when doing normal listening of dark psytrance ! It makes a more "Big PA" presentation of the subs
http://www.storm-mastering.com |
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Cardinals Cartel
Black Machine
Started Topics :
191
Posts :
3097
Posted : May 20, 2012 15:35
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(You should not have this problem with the bass And you dont have 'To know' your room anymore after finishing the all acoustic procedure/Work - You should get your studio ready to work in peace and quiet ..)
About small room's - (And i repeat again) :
1 . Good/Right built of your acoustic will solve 90% of your problem's
2 . Good/Right built of your acoustic will make the good/Right "Imprisonment"/Capture (Mean keep your sound in) .
Transitive verb : 5" (Max 6) Its more then enough for an small/Little room's .
The rest is you (Ears , Experience , Imagination and knowledge) Your work and how pro you are
(When sure this is all .. And only .. Up to you) .
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makus
Overdream
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
3087
Posted : May 20, 2012 15:43
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makus
Overdream
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
3087
Posted : May 20, 2012 15:46
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Quote:
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On 2012-05-20 15:06, xoC wrote:
Yes !
And this bump @ 30hz is cool when doing normal listening of dark psytrance ! It makes a more "Big PA" presentation of the subs
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Yes, I get it 
www.overdreamstudio.com |
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xoC
Cubic Spline
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
179
Posted : May 20, 2012 15:58
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On 2012-05-20 15:35, Cardinals Cartel wrote:
(You should not have this problem with the bass And you dont have 'To know' your room anymore after finishing the all acoustic procedure/Work - You should get your studio ready to work in peace and quiet ..)
About small room's - (And i repeat again) :
1 . Good/Right built of your acoustic will solve 90% of your problem's
2 . Good/Right built of your acoustic will make the good/Right "Imprisonment"/Capture (Mean keep your sound in) .
Transitive verb : 5" (Max 6) Its more then enough for an small/Little room's .
The rest is you (Ears , Experience , Imagination and knowledge) Your work and how pro you are
(When sure this is all .. And only .. Up to you) .
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imho acoustic treatment is yes really important, but speaker/sweet spot positionning is waaaayyyyy underrated !
It is as (if not more) important as acoustic treatment.
http://www.storm-mastering.com |
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Babaluma
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
729
Posted : May 20, 2012 16:47
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Just a few observations from me, not looking to start any arguments, just saying from my experience.
1) Acoustic treatment gets less and less important as the size of the room gets bigger and bigger. The smaller the room, the more treatment you're gonna need to get a flat frequency response, especially in the bass. I'm lucky to live, and have my studio, in a 17th century apartment building with ridiculously high ceilings.
2) I'd rather have a nice pair of speakers in a poor acoustic space, than a crap pair of speakers in an anechoic chamber, but that's just me.
3) I think large driver size is over-rated. There are plenty of people doing sterling professional work in front of near fields, and that includes recording, mixing and mastering.
4) I'd agree that speaker positioning is very frequently under rated. Try to get things symmetrical. An inch back/forth/side/tilt can make a huge difference.
Not saying none of this makes a difference, of course it does, but having a larger room, using near fields (where you are receiving a higher "direct to reflected" sound ratio), checking things on more than one monitor (high end cans etc.), can do a lot to counteract the dark side.  Also take it with a pinch of salt, as I'm mastering 99% of the time, and only recording/mixing for a very short time each year.
Interesting thread!
http://hermetechmastering.com : http://www.discogs.com/artist/Gregg+Janman : http://soundcloud.com/babaluma |
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Cardinals Cartel
Black Machine
Started Topics :
191
Posts :
3097
Posted : May 20, 2012 16:58
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Quote:
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On 2012-05-20 16:47, Babaluma wrote:
The smaller the room , the more treatment you're
gonna need to get a flat frequency response
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Here (Finally) some one who realy know and understand what im talking about .
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : May 20, 2012 17:34
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speaker position is very underrated indeed , moving your monitors by 20 cm can make more difference than loads of acoustic treatment.
about woofer size i think its harder to get good mids out of a large woofer as it deals with lowend + the mids in a 2 way monitor |
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supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
1505
Posted : May 20, 2012 17:58
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It might be useful to read this before you choose anything:
http://www.cambridge-mt.com/MixingSecrets.htm
A highly recommended book on mixing in small studios.
My recommendation: save up and go for dynaudio.
soundcloud.com/supergroover |
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Cardinals Cartel
Black Machine
Started Topics :
191
Posts :
3097
Posted : May 20, 2012 20:47
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supergroover 
Low end And/So all those story's and legend's , I work with E.s.i Near 5 And never had any problem , 'Low end' recital is only pretext/Excuse of those hwo can't bring an cinematic feeling to they music , Not more .
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Ampersand
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
92
Posted : May 20, 2012 21:24
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Now this thread is really going somewhere!
Great input from everybody. Thanks for all of it. I will definitely see if I can pick up a copy of that book that you mentioned supergroover.
As far as Dynaudio's, I heard they were quite nice but they're unfortunately out of my price range and I guess I could hold off and return the Yammys but that would leave me to mix through headphones alone for a few more months and I just hate it. I never work that way and I've only recently been forced to since my speakers broke. Not that they were nice speakers by any means but it's the fact that my ears are enclosed for several hours at a time that drives me nuts. Anyway, thanks again everybody, this conversation has evolved in a great way. |
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Ampersand
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
92
Posted : May 23, 2012 04:48
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So I just picked up my monitors at Guitar Center right before they closed. I didn't have much time to investigate them, the guy who sold them to me didn't even help me pick them up so it was some random dude. I bought a used pair from GC because it was like $100 off. Everybody said they should be in fine shape.
I haven't set them up yet but I just took them out of the box. The white part, which is the same white part as on the NS-10s, I'm not sure the technical term is... the sub part, is cracked. Will that affect the sound? Seems to me like it definitely would. They're pretty banged up too but that's just looks I guess. The site said I have a 30 day return but when I asked the woman there she said it should be on my receipt but we didn't see it on there. I tried to print the listing before I went in case something happened and I needed to return them but they took the listing down so I have no proof of a 30 day guarantee. Guess I'm just hyper vigilant about it cause I'm not trying to lose all that money I just spent only to throw these away or whatever but hopefully they won't fuck me if I need to return them.
So, I say unto thee, oh wise isratrancees, should I keep them or try something else? This monitor hunt is becoming so hellish, I've been trying to snag a pair for well over a month and it's not easy for some reason lol. |
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