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Sir Mick Jagger on Illegal Downloading: “Artists Have Always Struggled
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The_Guardians_Of_Truth
Atma
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
379
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 01:38
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ok smart guy. You won ! go take your shower !
I go back in studio to make a track ...i need money for a new Porsche !
Cheers ! ooops i forgot: PEACE !
  NEW ALBUM OUT SOON !!!
"ATMA - Music Revolution"
www.myspace.com/atmastudio |
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moondoggy
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
175
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 02:06
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[namastizzle] |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 02:26
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In this field money comes from fame and fame comes from playing your cards right. Just behold the amount of pure garbage flowing from TV and radio receivers under the guise of “professional music”. Consider the number of multimillion dollar “singers” that can not hit a single note right. And the platinum hit songs they are “singing” – the same ole “baby-baby, you make me so hot” bullshit reshuffled for the thousandth time, like those schlagers coming out of song kaleidoscopes in Orwell’s “1984”. I think it’s pretty safe to say the amount of money you make has very little to do with the quality of your music. What is it then that makes completely fabricated “artists” into multimillionaires then?
You may say that it’s inappropriate to compare a small fragmented scene with the Hollywood mega-machine. OK, let’s consider another niche genre: Algerian Rai. If you haven’t heard of it, it’s no biggie – chances are Algerian “chebs” never heard of psy trance either. OK, we’ll go to early 80s, when it all started. Cheb Kader: nice melodies, meaningful lyrics, good voice. Cheb Khaled: tons and tons of cheesy synth pop, mediocre voice. Let’s try to find their CDs, whether for sale physically or as pirated downloads. You’ll soon discover that Cheb Khaled holds the title of “King of Rai”, many of his CDs are available new in online stores and you can find over 30 albums of his on pirate sites. Cheb Kader is in relative obscurity. I could not find a single album of his on pirate networks and I found two CDs for sale. Why that?
Do I hear words “agent” and “manager”?
Oh, and as a side note: almost all new chebs and chebas of today produce nothing but cheap over-autotuned garbage. Many of them make a good living singing this crap. Mystery...
Back to psy trance. Let’s consider one psy producer who decided to take a plunge and go pro. He is well known in the scene. His music is original and diverse enough to appeal to the whole spectrum of tastes. Why does he need to have a professional agent then? An Ibiza-based one, by the way. Could it be that he realized there is more to going pro than switching from part-time to full-time music production? Why didn’t he just let his music speak for itself? Smart guy, it seems. IMHO, of course.
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 04:23
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^
Ahem, sorry, didn't mean to rant into the void. All this was in re:
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On 2010-06-28 23:57, The_Guardians_Of_Truth wrote:
These guys made money in the end, because they made and still do real music. What we do (i am talking about the all trance scene) it's just a stupid joke. We are just old kids playing with beats, sound effects or presets from cracked soft.
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moondoggy
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
175
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 06:08
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well ranted..
the aforementioned concept of "real music" is something i hear a lot of ((as a psy enthusiast in a region without many like minds))
..how is it not real music?? ..its still something inside my head that i express through the medium of an instrument (computer program) and manifest into "reality" in the form of intentionally-constructed vibrations of the gaseous envelope..
imo, something stops being 'art' when you incorporate the concept of compensation into the creative process..
"what will i get for making this"
"how much is this worth"
at that point i think it becomes pornography, not to belittle any resident pornstars..but its taking something absolutely vital to the human experience and manipulating it in a way so that people will believe they have to pay for it..
the whole concept of the "music industry" makes me laugh out loud, you know, to drown out the agonizing screams of pain inside..
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Pavel
Troll
Started Topics :
312
Posts :
8647
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 08:01
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Well said Main Coon. When people like Simon Posford and his Shpongle project struggle to sell copies (not gigs booking) even though it has, and I have a very little doubt in that, a huge mainstream appeal, it all boils down to weak marketing. Now I am no marketing wizard but when artists much more abstract like Aphex Twin manage to sell well and Shpongle doesn't than it should be pretty obvious.
Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 08:53
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Quote:
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On 2010-06-29 00:51, The_Guardians_Of_Truth wrote:
If you are not an artist who make your living from music only than please stop with this hippy bullshit attitude !!!
This was a serious topic and discution here and it might be interesting and useful for many artists or young peoples who wanna become musicians.
They must know the reality and what they have to deal in this scene ! |
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The reality? I doubt this scene has ever supported any artist with a living wage solely through the sale of recorded music. Of those artists who have, at times, actually made a living wage in this scene, I also doubt that the sale of recorded music ever made up more than a fraction of their yearly income.
It's always going to be a huge struggle because so many people want to make the music and not so many people want to buy the canned version. At least lots of people want to hear the music live at parties--if it weren't for that there would be no hope for artists wishing to make an income in this subculture!
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 12:24
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My only struggle was to find a proper job that I like, supports my life style and allows for enough free time and most importantly, peace of mind, so I can make the music I want without ever compromising on my music and on top, give it away for free.
I understand some people feel like fainting when they her the work "day job", but for me, its been smooth sailing since then.
Peace out.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Xamanist
Xamanist
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
938
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 12:59
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Quote:
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On 2010-06-29 12:24, disco hooligans wrote:
My only struggle was to find a proper job that I like, supports my life style and allows for enough free time and most importantly, peace of mind, so I can make the music I want without ever compromising on my music and on top, give it away for free.
I understand some people feel like fainting when they her the work "day job", but for me, its been smooth sailing since then.
Peace out.
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@Atma: 20 years of psytrance and no genious music was made? are you serious?
Sérgio Xamanist
facebook.com/xamanist
soundcloud.com/xamanist |
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Xolvexs
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
241
Posts :
2848
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 13:11
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the difference between a painter and musician is that when a painter makes one painting and sells he or she forgets about what happens after (typically) musicians on the other hand will make one piece of music sell it over and over again..thereby by lowering the intrinsic value of the art..what ends up happening with music at least these days is that the more pieces of the same you sell the more successfull you become, unlike a painter where you just make one piece and replicas have no value..so theoretically everything other than the master copy of the track is a replica of the original and packaging repilcas as original works of art both the artist and labels are taking the consumer for a ride..i guess thats what is really at the root of why the business of recorded music is failing - i still buy music cds though but i know what i am buying is just another commodity to pleasure my senses, i dont buy mp3 because they only please one of my senses (audio) but a cd (audio visual and touch) so more value for money even though its replica..
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive |
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The_Guardians_Of_Truth
Atma
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
379
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 13:49
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[quote]
On 2010-06-29 08:53, Basilisk wrote:
[quote]
On 2010-06-29 00:51, The_Guardians_Of_Truth wrote:
If you are not an artist who make your living from music only than please stop with this hippy bullshit attitude !!!
This was a serious topic and discution here and it might be interesting and useful for many artists or young peoples who wanna become musicians.
They must know the reality and what they have to deal in this scene ![/quote]
The reality? I doubt this scene has [i]ever[/i] supported any artist with a living wage solely through the sale of recorded music. Of those artists who have, at times, actually made a living wage in this scene, I also doubt that the sale of recorded music ever made up more than a fraction of their yearly income.
It's always going to be a huge struggle because so many people want to make the music and not so many people want to buy the canned version. At least lots of people want to hear the music live at parties--if it weren't for that there would be no hope for artists wishing to make an income in this subculture!
[/quote]
Well, one thing is clear..we have different mentality so it's is useless
to fight here, because it won't change a thing.
@Basilisk: maybe you missunderstand me. I wasn't talking only about sales in the psy scene but about professionalism in general.
I keep hearing same every day, trance artists complaining that you can not make a living from trance music and they need a normal job to survive..and i think this is bullshit !!!
I am one of the artists who can have a nice and decent living from music only and i can give you a lot of other examples of other psy artists.
I'm coming from Romania a very poor country in Europe but still in this moment I can affort a sport car, an expensive studio or to pay an expensive rent for a house in Austria. And i am not some kind of a Israely superstar and i also don't make electro or tech-trance or other commercial style.
But, for this things i had to make a lot of effort: lo leave my friends and family from Romania and to move in Austria (i was too far away from west Europe and i can not take gigs from there), I had to start making music more serious, to make live act on the stage not fake one push play button, I had to study music very serious to find my own style and not just copy other artists etc, etc.....
And I forgot an important thing: i don't smoke i don't drink and i don't use any kind of drugs.
So, it is possible to make it but you just have to stop being lazy and start to use your brains and not burn them!
And if you guys are asking why i need a sport car, well i'ts because i drive with the car on the parties in Europe most of the time. I use flight only when it's a really far gig and i can not make it by car. With the car i can take my complete live equipment with me, and i can take 2 sometimes 3 gigs in the area in only one weekend. Of course this is an extra effort for me but it's a less effort from the organizers who are more happy to book an artists who can manage to get there himself than one who need expensive flights, waiting at the airport, hotels etc etc...
I prefer to drive 1000 km in one weekend only and to make easy 1000 euro than to wake up every day for one month on 6:00 Am to go to a normal job and to get maybe less than 1500 euro.
So this is just an other example of the effort an artist can do to survive from music.
But i think it's more easy to hide our laziness behind ideological ideas and a hippy atitude. It's easy to blame labels that rip you off or the managers are not promoting you enough, don't find you gigs...
Same thing for the party organizers who complain they loose money all the time because peoples don't come to parties.
What about start organizing parties more efficient and professional ??
What about start doing more ourself and wait for less ?
Cheers
NEW ALBUM OUT SOON !!!
"ATMA - Music Revolution"
www.myspace.com/atmastudio |
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kameleonpangea36
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
77
Posts :
537
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 14:51
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If you go into any music store anywhere, the mall, on the corner, whatever, theres House, Breaks, Hardcore, Drum N Bass, Dubstep, Progressive, but no Psy Trance!
We need better marketing!
Thats it.
label: www.pureperceptionrecords.org
design: www.designsbymattbryson.com
soundcloud: http://soundcloud.com/kameleon-pangea |
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The_Guardians_Of_Truth
Atma
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
379
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 15:16
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[quote]
On 2010-06-29 14:51, kameleonpangea36 wrote:
If you go into any music store anywhere, the mall, on the corner, whatever, theres House, Breaks, Hardcore, Drum N Bass, Dubstep, Progressive, but no Psy Trance!
We need better marketing!
Thats it.
[/quote]
Yes you are right ! Better marketing, better promotion and not in the end better music. And like any other styles we need big names to make this music more known to the peoples. Unfortunately our big names don't make psy-trance anymore or even if they do they make very bad quality music at the moment.
Take a look at: Juno Reactor, Infected Mushroom, Astrix, Skazy, X-Dream, Son Kite, Ticon, Gms, Astral P... Sorry but with this "big names", we have no chance. On the other side we have only cheesy pop-full on, shit progressive music that sound all the same and and shit dark music which is impossible to listen for a normal human being.
Where is the psy scene heading ?? Nowhere !
NEW ALBUM OUT SOON !!!
"ATMA - Music Revolution"
www.myspace.com/atmastudio |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 15:17
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Atma: You make a fair point, but we are talking about music sales, not performing, which is basically the only source of income. I know its nitpicking, since its obvious to people that make music, that their only source of income, is performing their music live (and making a live set that differentiates enough from the album versions of your music, so its worth listening to).
Thankfully people can't illegally download you and your live set...yet anyway 
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Boulevard
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
2497
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 15:27
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shit dark music which is impossible to listen for a normal human being.
[/quote]
On 2010-06-29 02:26, Maine Coon wrote:
the same ole “baby-baby, you make me so hot”
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LOL
Mushrooms make you do crazy stuff. Look at Mario he jumps on animal heads and fights with dragons. |
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