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sidechaining bass and kick, why?
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5-ht
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 28, 2007 17:57
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I guys i have a question for a thing that i cannot understand... In psytrance bassline should be like:
kbbbkbbbkbbb... or
kb.bk.b.kb.b or
k.b.k.b.k.b.k and many other ways isn't it? (you are free to tell me other ways!)
So, a friend of mine told me that bass should never be placed on the kick, is it true?
If this is true why use sidechain? I know sidechain stops bass when played but why shuold i have to use sidechain?
Sorry, this maybe a very stupid question but i'm a beginner so i have many doubts you know
thanks again for all your answer and thank god for this site!!! Bye |
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Alex - Aural Invasion
Aural Invasion
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Posted : Mar 28, 2007 18:51
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i've never used bassnotes on top of the kick, but most time the kick will overlap the first bassnote, and then sidechain is nice.
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www.aural-invasion.com |
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Meta
Meta/Boomslang
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1045
Posted : Mar 28, 2007 18:54
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Not a stupid question... but definitely one that has been asked here many times before. 
Generally these days people don't put the kick and bass together since they occupy the same frequency range.
Even so, People still use sidechains because often the tail end of a kickdrum has not faded out before the first bass note hits, so a sidechain gives the kickdrum room to really resonate fully. Also it adds some groove to your kick and bass combo.
You can get a similar result but having the velocity on your first bassnote be lower than the other 2.
edit: Alex is faster than me http://soundcloud.com/aeon604
http://www.metaekstasis.com/
http://the1134.com/ |
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5-ht
IsraTrance Junior Member
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34
Posted : Mar 28, 2007 20:08
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perfect! I understand, so is not so important but usefull!
If i play KBbbKBbbKBbbKBbb the B velocity
should be less then other bb or you can use sidechain and there's no more reason to change velocity right?
thanks a lot! |
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Saf
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
210
Posted : Mar 28, 2007 23:08
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Also, if you do a kick rush or do something like:
|KbbbKbbbKbbbKbKb|
See that last kick would be over top of a bass note. There's a million different times besides normal 4/4 you might want to put a Kick, and if it's side chained you won't have to adjust your bass notes because it will do it for you.
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
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158
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5306
Posted : Mar 29, 2007 03:15
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also , "quote perfect stranger" (and logic)
by not placing bass on kick notes
u miss 25% of basslines available
also , i think that what i hate in new "spirit" of trance ... all this stupid rules.
i find myself listening more and more to old goa stuff... before crappy theories become rules.
before it was "cool" , before it had contest about who has bigger bass , before production wank was more important then the music
and yeah , btw , lot of these place bass on top of kick.
u want suggestions ? there you go :
bass evry 2 steps. kick evry 4.
bass evry 3 steps. kick evry 4.
specialy with the first example , you realy dont need much kick . the bass with take care of the bass , and u can use nice bassdrum (not overloaded with sub)on top of this bass. www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Vegda_Vision
Started Topics :
1
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8
Posted : Mar 29, 2007 04:56
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In sidechaining the kick goes trough the energy of the bass. It gives more groove to the music.
Quote:
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also , i think that what i hate in new "spirit" of trance ... all this stupid rules.
i find myself listening more and more to old goa stuff... before crappy theories become rules.
before it was "cool" , before it had contest about who has bigger bass , before production wank was more important then the music
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And the old style worked so well. No sidechaining though...
Correct me if I'm wrong
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Sunrunner
IsraTrance Junior Member
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17
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47
Posted : Mar 29, 2007 05:50
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totally disagree that you should never place the bass note over the kick - as tsabeat says / quotes, you lose a lot of potential groove possibilities.
you just have to make sure that you choose a good kick and bass and eq it correctly. if done well it can sound great
as for sidechaining, it can give a nice 'pumping' sound to a bassline, so it can be worth doing run the bass as bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb and kick as k---k---k---k--- and have it sidechained - experiment with the compressor and see how it sounds, there are good results to be found
dwight. |
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-aeon-
Aeon
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10
Posts :
546
Posted : Mar 29, 2007 10:40
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sidechaining can be really subtle too... a tiny bit can sometimes add just the right element of feel and movement to an otherwise static bassline.
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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40
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Posted : Mar 29, 2007 11:29
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I find it easier to get a rolling bassline without sidechain, but with lower velocities on the bass notes that coincide with the kick envelope.
sidechaining is just gain reduction fed from a different source. for something as repetitive as a bassline I cant think of a really good reason to not just fine tune the 1bar bassline yourself and save the cpu cycles.
Sidechaining can be usefull for other reasons though, like gating a pad with a drumbeat. and other fx.
But on the whole what is the HUGE fascination with it? its like if you dont do it youre square. Cultural tradition ritual crap. dont go against the high priests, coz they are the authorities and they know best.
But dont worry man. we'll make a mc out of u yet. |
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diskonekt
Fat Data
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37
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1112
Posted : Mar 29, 2007 12:59
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Quote:
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On 2007-03-29 11:29, bukboy wrote:
for something as repetitive as a bassline I can't think of a really good reason to not just fine tune the 1bar bassline yourself and save the cpu cycles.
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Because one may have many variations of a kickbass loop which will require altering the bass velocity each time
I like to use sidechain on kick/bass but mostly on the bass eq or filter cutoff, i think it works cool
Cheers!
Peace, Love, Death metal |
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Alex - Aural Invasion
Aural Invasion
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514
Posted : Mar 29, 2007 14:44
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Bukboy > its true that you can easily adjust velocity on your own, but but, if the VSTi doesnt respond to velocity sidechain is nice. Also, difference is, when you set the velocity the whole tone uses only its own amp envelopes, when sidechaining it will curve in more smoothly. But of course what sounds good is best
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reverbnation.com/auralinvasion
www.aural-invasion.com |
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Mike A
Subra
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3954
Posted : Mar 29, 2007 15:23
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Assuming you go for a kbbb bassline, usually the the kick is longer than a 1/16, so it makes sure the end of the kick doesn't collide with the beginning of the first bass note.
This is not just about volume, also about phase cancellations etc. Both and kick and the bassline will sound better when side chained. This also provides groove, especially when you filter the sidechain input. This way you can compress only when there's real bass, which leaves the mid & highs alone.
But who uses kbbb today anyway?
About lowering the velocity of the first note... Well, I personally modulate the cutoff filter using the velocity and not the volume of it. Better groove like this. Besides, comperssion doesn't sound like velocity changes. Just try and see for yourself.
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Mar 29, 2007 19:30
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I'd say a sidechained kick and bass is just another style of bassline from many that are possible. I like to use it so it sounds like your kick has 2 16ths, drowning out the attack of the first bass note so it pushes the first part of the groove hard and then the second half has a galloping groove leading onto the next beat. This makes your kick and bassline gel much better and gives you a much more constant low end.
I always use sidechaining when I make a break beat track with that long droning bassline and you can do the same with a more moody psy track.
Ultimately though it's about making the kick have more room at the expense of that little bass note that really has little influence behind your monster kick.
If I wanted a much stabbier bass and a short kick I wouldn't bother, but as a producer it's nice to be able to know how everything works and what it does so you have that unstoppable knowledge to do what you want, whenever you want which to me is what it's all about. |
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