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Shpongle in the US in April
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saintcarl
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
209
Posted : May 9, 2010 02:58
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On 2010-05-09 02:17, Squee.Isme wrote:
im sorry, but we live in a world of definitions, words, labels.
it doesn't matter whether you like it or not, it just is, i don't particularly like it myself, but i can't change it and neither can you...
psychedelic trance was called such because of its diversion from mainstream trance music. mainstream trance music has already been defined by the 4/4, the speed, certain other aspects.
psytrance was young when shpongle was born, but it HAS been defined.
i know this is a little sad, since there are tons of styles of music or single songs that are both 'psychedelic' and 'trancey', but these are just words. if i listen to a track that i think i would enjoy more at my house, that doesn't make it 'house music'!
to say that shpongle is psytrance is to completely dilute all the music that is psytrance. i know i know, its just a definition and all that, but it is what it is.
saying that shpongle is psytrance lends to this particular situation to occur:
person 1: hey, do you like to dance and party?
person 2: yes
person 1: check it out, here is a flyer for a party you should come to
person 2: oh sweet! what kind of music?
person 1: psytrance! you heard it before?
person 2: OH YA, I LOVE SHPONGLE
person 1: .................................................
sorry, but this is just silly. the reason for genres and labels is so that people know what they are going to be listening to, to some extent at least. to have a person come to one of our parties with the opinion that shpongle is psytrance would almost be RUDE. talk about setting someone up for a meltdown!
so, to repeat myself again for all you to read, shpongle IS NOT PSYTRANCE. he started doing what he was doing when psytrance was a wee little baby, and simon helped birth psytrance from his previous work, that is all. IF shpongle is psytrance, then we desperately need to come up with a better name for what really is psytrance, so my mom doesn't get confused.
again, i apologize, but definitions are there for a reason, and that reason is that humans are label-hungry word freaks. its our very nature.
and yes, i know that this debate is just that, a debate. nothing is really going to come from this, but being human, i like to speak my mind sometimes.
and remember, there is a word for music that is not defined.... experimental! haha just kidding, but um ya.....
squee
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For those confused: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psytrance
I think this shows psybient as a sub genere of psytrance? |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : May 9, 2010 05:38
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Of course we like to label and categorize, but different people categorize in different ways.
for me, there are enough descriptors/sub genres for the difference types of music that is under the massive umbrella that is 'psytrance' - full on, dark, morning, progressive, psybient, blah blah the list goes on and on.
For *me* (and I know I am not alone in this), shpongle is psytrance, secret society is psytrance, zen mechanics is psytrance, puoskari is psytrance, even the shit I absolutely hate like skazi and infected mushroom is classified by some people as psytrance...even though the music the particular artists create is massively different.
True enough, if I am going to a 'psytrance party' or festival or whatnot, I generally expect from past experience that the music played on the stage will mostly be ~145, gradually rising during the night and hopefully decreasing again as the morning comes, possibly with a chillout/alternate stage with different tempos.
As for giving people some sort of information so as they know what to expect...I don't know of any organizer that doesn't post the artists that are coming to their show, and a large portion of the time those artists have music posted online so that the people can get a feel of the music being played.
I don't really get the comment about people thinking that shpongle is psytrance means that they're rude? I mean, it would be ignorant if they thought that shpongle was the entirety of psytrance...and didn't do any research at all as to who was playing at this 'psytrance' event that they were going to...*I* consider shpongle to be psytrance yet I went to your show knowing that what I was going to hear was nothing like it at all and I wasn't upset because it didn't sound like shpongle...
Basically I healthily disagree with your statement that 'x music isn't psytrance because of y reason', because psytrance at this point is SO generic of a term as to mean any countless number of things, while not being naive as to the nature of humanity when it comes to relentlessly labeling the shit out of everything.
I mean, just try to ask yourself 'what is psytrance' - To me, its not a defined set of characteristics because while there are plenty of conventions there are an infinite number of ways to break and bend them as well - I have noticed since I started listening to psy that there seems to be more and more copy-cat bad shit being released (although lots of good stuff too of course), and I can't help but feel that a contributing factor is this categorization, people coming up with definite rules and sticking to the formula as opposed to being truly unique and going with what inspires them. It's tricky.
 If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : May 9, 2010 05:42
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I mean, look at the wikipedia entry lol:
"Psychedelic trance has a distinctive, speedy sound (generally between 140 and 150 BPM) that tends to be faster than other forms of trance or techno music. Psychedelic trance uses prominent bass beats that pound constantly throughout the song, and overlays the bass with varying rhythms drawn from funk music, techno, EBM, Middle Eastern music, and trance using drums and other synthesized instruments. The different leads, rhythms and beats generally change every 32 beats.[1] Layering is used to great effect in psychedelic trance, with new musical ideas being added at regular intervals, often every 4 to 8 bars. New layers will continue to be added until a climax is reached, and then the song will break down and start a new rhythmic pattern over the constant bass line. Psychedelic trance tracks tend to be 6–10 minutes long.[2] Psychedelic trance also makes heavy use of the cutoff frequency control of the modulating filter on the synthesizer. Reverb is also used heavily, with large, open sounding reverb present on most of the lead synthesizers in the track."
seems like a healthily generic description, I would say that shpongle (or bits of shpongle) adhere to most of that, as does your music, even though they're completely different 
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Squee.Isme
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
252
Posted : May 10, 2010 23:46
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simon wrote that wiki entry
just kidding...
i don't disagree with much of what you said, but i don't think shpongle is psytrance... neither is psybient. you don't say psybient psytrance... you say progressive psytrance, or full-on psytrance.
and if we were to use the wiki entry as our be-all end-all, i would say that "speedy sound (generally between 140 and 150 BPM) that tends to be faster than other forms of trance or techno music" does actually tend to exclude MOST of what shpongle does. even the 4/4 beat that he brings sometimes is rarely faster than house music. this wiki entry may also be outdated, as even full-on psytrance music is tending towards the +150 bpm these days isn't it?
if anything, wouldn't it be nice to think that any particular artist in question would be so undefinable as to not have a label? whether we like the shpongle sound or not, it at least brings up the question, what is this? world music, psytrance, psychedelic downtempo, maybe none of them fit for this artist or that one. i know that secret society music falls under certain categories, but as most artists do, i feel that many of those categories are not fitting for us either.
its a good debate as most pointless ones are! i'm still hoping that secret society might find itself in the 'dark-humor trance' neo-sub genre one of these days.
squee
SS Secret Society Portland, OR
http://soundcloud.com/secret-society-nw |
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GyPsynate
GyPsy
Started Topics :
29
Posts :
687
Posted : May 11, 2010 00:12
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Edit the Wiki then Squee.
You can create it now...
Everyone can look back at this in like 20 years when they are debating over whether Secret society is even psytrance anymore.
lol
IMHO if it is downtempo (130 bpm and below and /or not 4/4) it is not psytrance, its not plain trance so how could it be psytrance whitch is its own sub genre of trance.
Also please dont live your life according to WIKI people...
Look under the entertainment section...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_controversial_issues
Psytrance is controversial
\\\"Invoking the inner dancing buddha with future frequencies from beyond\\\" ~GyPsy
D-A-R-K Rec, Anomalistic Rec.
Cerebral Theater
http://www.molecular.cc/GyPsy/ |
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sidetrakkt
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
46
Posted : May 28, 2010 21:45
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