| Author
|
Should I change my learning process ?
|
WhySoLazy?
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
111
Posted : Sep 6, 2011 01:21:34
|
Hello 
I'm new to trance music production .
2 weeks ago I found on the web psytrance course recorded by cubaseguru .
I'm actually felling like copy pasting all what he does and not actually learning something .
He also use ton's of FX's and VST that I don't have and can't find online to download so even the copy pasting work isn't going well .
Can you recommend me how to improve my leaning experience and how can I learn better from this course ?
Should I just leave this course and just download tons of vst's and just have fun couple of months be just experiencing and trying new things ?
I really lost in this sea of information .
Any tips welcomed |
|
|
Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Sep 6, 2011 03:04
|
watch some of billy cosmosis tutorials , experiment , watch lots of youtube classes - you can get totally professional with that alone..
also , make sure to learn some music theory , at the very least major minor scales and chords progressions , some odd time signatures etc.
all that is more for creative side , to make sure whatever you do will be nicer.
and F1 - always the best way to learn any program functions etc.
if you speak hebrew check out also this 5 parts tutorial for trance on cubase
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWkbIlZRUgo&feature=related www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
|
|
|
willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Sep 6, 2011 03:15
|
Personally I learned a shitload from watching Tom Cosm's Introduction to Digital Audio production as well as Cosmosis' Killer Leads tutorials.
I purchased Cubaseguru's psytrance production tutorials as well, and I too ran into the problem of him using stuff like his Virus to do tutorials...didn't feel like that was the best way to design a tutorial. However, he was using Cubase and I use Ableton which both Cosmosis and Cosm used in their tutorials.
I also bought some music theory books, like The Dance Music Manual - which was helpful.
The thing I would strongly reccomend AGAINST is downloading a fuckload of VSTs. If you are new, you need to learn basic subtractive synthesis.
If I was learning from scratch again, I would have just bought Sylenth and not touched another synth for a couple months until I learned that. A big part of the problem when you're starting out is that you don't understand what basic subtractive synths + tweaking can do, so you try to fill that hole with a bunch of whacky VSTs and over-process the shit out of stuff with a bunch of FX.
Go slow, pick a synth and don't download any more. Don't download sample packs unless they're for percussion - lead/bass loops are the devil.
But yes, of course have fun it's easy to get lost in the sea of information, and it also takes a couple years in order to acquire all the skills to make engaging music, so don't beat yourself up if it doesn't sound good right away.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
|
|
|
psyraal
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
77
Posts :
768
Posted : Sep 6, 2011 04:00
|
Sticking to one and just one vst plugin is essential. Get Synth1, it's free and it's pretty straight to use, learning it inside out will help you learn faster (not that kind of faster), better and besides that, you can make awesome stuff with it. Learn what every knob does, and what this knob can make with that knob. When you feel like buying a nicer plugin, get Komplexer.
Read stuff, read the psychedelic history guidelines, if you're like me, everytime you read about the psytrance genre, you will feel a boost to learn more and more on how to be creative. Set your mind to other tasks, if you don't feel like twisting knobs at some days, see videos about music production, put some work into your percussion lines, listen to your favourite producers, there is tons of stuff to do.
And most importantly, don't give up when you hit bumpy roads, good luck.
https://soundcloud.com/neervos |
|
|
|
Kryten
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
333
Posted : Sep 6, 2011 11:04
|
Looks like all has been said here already.
Go with what was said above, bring a lot of patience with you and you should be fine.
A little more advertising ^^:
After watching the psy course from soundmagus (like two years ago), I knew for the first time in which direction I have to go (learning wise)...it showed me what I was missing all the time (thanks again mark!^^).
After that the tuts from Cosmosis and Tom Cosm were really great also, I learned lots of stuff there.
There are a few very good books also, my favorites:
Dance music manual (for the very basics)
Music Theory for Computer musicians
Composing for Computer musicians
If you can, get these too 
My first track:
http://soundcloud.com/kryten/ |
|
|
|
The Bap
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
363
Posted : Sep 6, 2011 14:12
|
my advice mate is listen, listen, listen. Hear what it is you like about a particular tune, isolate parts and in your head, filter out other sounds and concentrate on what that part is doing.
Do it with all the music you hear, not just Psy. Appreciate how the parts mesh together and then listen some more.
It's a bit like learning a language. It all sounds like gobbledegook at first and then the words start to emerge, then the meaning attatched to those words. The tuts will then help you develop what you hear and like with languages you will gradually change from accepting and understanding meaning to being able to express YOUR meaning in a common language.
As an example, my mate's mum thinks I speak "really good 'bad' Dutch" -I still think in English and form thoughts in English but I use Dutch words that sound strange to a Dutch ear but they understand my meaning.
Remember you are writing music first and foremost and even if your 'sentences' are simple now, your ideas are not and you should just develop the techniques to express them better.
I wish Sylenth had been around when I started that's for sure! If you get one, do that! And most importantly enjoy yourself - you may accidentally find the sound we've all been waiting for!!!
https://soundcloud.com/craic-addict |
|
|
|
faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Sep 6, 2011 18:29
|
i i don't get this whole stick to one plugin or a few plugins philosophy.
this is part of the problem with trance today.
half the music sounds like albino/vanguar/synlenth.
this is like taking your creativity and putting it in a dark box!
get creative, boldly go where no man has gone before.
seems like half the scene these days is taking those cosmosis ideas and doing them on albino. "i can do it too" music... meeeh, come on, this is not the way!!!
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
|
|
|
faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Sep 6, 2011 18:31
|
Quote:
|
On 2011-09-06 01:21:34, WhySoLazy? wrote:
Should I just leave this course and just download tons of vst's and just have fun couple of months be just experiencing and trying new things ?
|
|
you answered yourself +1.... just change a couple of months to "a couple of years"
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
|
|
|
panike
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
314
Posted : Sep 6, 2011 18:45
|
Quote:
|
On 2011-09-06 18:31, faxinadu wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2011-09-06 01:21:34, WhySoLazy? wrote:
Should I just leave this course and just download tons of vst's and just have fun couple of months be just experiencing and trying new things ?
|
|
you answered yourself +1.... just change a couple of months to "a couple of years"
|
|
agree with the years thing
Soundclound:
http://soundcloud.com/matmah |
|
|
|
jekvan
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
406
Posted : Sep 6, 2011 19:17
|
Quote:
|
On 2011-09-06 18:29, faxinadu wrote:
i i don't get this whole stick to one plugin or a few plugins philosophy.
this is part of the problem with trance today.
half the music sounds like albino/vanguar/synlenth.
this is like taking your creativity and putting it in a dark box!
get creative, boldly go where no man has gone before.
seems like half the scene these days is taking those cosmosis ideas and doing them on albino. "i can do it too" music... meeeh, come on, this is not the way!!!
|
|
I think there should be split-up between all those hats producers wear today.
You can't possibly be mix engineer,sound designer,arranger,and probably other stuff I forgot.Takes shitload of time to be good in that all.Its like studying engineering (and i know cause i study one),and god knows creativity is far from that.
I'm kinda ashame to admit that after a year I still don't know the basics of sound synthesis.Hell,the only thing I learned how to do is a psy fart,a kick,half ass snare.I can't even synthesize a decent bassline.
All the time I was concentrating on how to arrange sound in a pleasing manner for all .I just browse the presets of different synths and rape them with samplers and sound effects till it sounds good for my ear.And I shamefully admit to looking for presets banks over the web  .Not a good way to learn the stuff,but all this time I wanted to arrange more,then to synthesise stuff.
Divide and rule,this stuff has become to complex ,and people became way impatient to learn all that and still find ways to be creative.Instead of doing music,many people do it like the way you build house,with formulas.
I don't even know why I wrote that...Whatever dude,just be aware then some time after the beggining you get the cravings to drop it all at once cause you ain't sound like the big guys,and there is too much to know.You have to know those cravings and with much respect tell them to get lost and get on with it.
And get partner,that helps a lot.Each one can actually concentrate on different aspect of producing,which is exactly the divide and rule,and then you can teach each other.
From all the things I lost,that sandwitch cost me most :)
http://soundcloud.com/jekvan |
|
|
|
faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Sep 6, 2011 19:21
|
but that is the point though, people should stop looking for those shortcuts to superstardom! yes, i do think that a true master does wear all those hats. butch vig from garbage anyone?
making music is HARD, at times un-requitted love, and makes you pretty much of a weirdo loner for parts of your life.
kind of like that kid in your class that was always going to swimming lessons when everyone else was getting high and banging chicks.
if you really want to be good at something, it is a lifelong process! the best at what they do (in any field) are usually eccentric crazy people who dedicate their life pretty much to their "thing".
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
|
|
|
The Bap
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
363
Posted : Sep 6, 2011 19:29
|
Quote:
|
On 2011-09-06 18:29, faxinadu wrote:
i i don't get this whole stick to one plugin or a few plugins philosophy.
this is part of the problem with trance today.
half the music sounds like albino/vanguar/synlenth.
this is like taking your creativity and putting it in a dark box!
get creative, boldly go where no man has gone before.
seems like half the scene these days is taking those cosmosis ideas and doing them on albino. "i can do it too" music... meeeh, come on, this is not the way!!!
|
|
I get your point totally big lad but to be sure there is definately a degree of "VST envy" (what would Freud say! )in the scene too and I for one am guilty as charged!
There are sooo many VSTs esp freeware and great advertising (and forum) campaigns that tell us each VST is the answer to our dreams (and a series of great tuts that seem to prove it) and it's hard not to folow our impulses and grab them all. My vst folder is stuffed to the gills and I would say most of them only get a glance before the next "great synth" turns up doing exactly the same thing a different way. I certainly haven't learned a thing by having so many!
If the original poster is confused by the sea of information then surely too many synths/preset surfing isn't going to help that situation?
I think as well there was always that degree of copying sounds but before the internet, we just never got to hear as much of it coz it didn't get a release. It's the down side for sure.
https://soundcloud.com/craic-addict |
|
|
|
jekvan
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
406
Posted : Sep 6, 2011 19:39
|
Hey man,I ain't got nothing over self perfection,hooa for that.
But the shit gots to be effective if you know what i mean.You can learn,and then you can learn.Il give you an example from my shit,when i started learning engineering i quickly understood that people who get good grades are the ones who do it effectively.More effect/time.Its all about time baby,time is one of the few commodities in our existance which totally is out of our reach.But it is under our control.
It took me one week to understand that,and two years to finally start behaving like that .
And you know what,if you can learn effectively,you dont have to be the weirdo guy.
Finally,all I have to say with that is just today electronic music is too complex for its own good.I agree with you on the part for constant perfection.But till you get there,there are roads man.
There is a principle in differential math called "potential field".This is principle widely used in physics and it is quite existential if you come thinking about it.What the principle says is,that in this field,you got point A,and point B.
And it absolutely doesn't matter how you went from point A to point B in that field.You are dong the same work integral,if you go ten miles,or if you go 2 metters.
It ain't matter you learned good mixing in two days or two years.The end goal is the same,you just went spending precious commodity which is time.
By oh means,lets learn each day music till we drop dead(no sarcasm).But lets do it smartly,the end means is to produce stuff people will listen and love and hear over and over.In the end we WILL wear all of them producer hats,but in between,all I say is it sometimes do wise to split your way.
I don't know what the fuck Im talking about half of the time anyways.
From all the things I lost,that sandwitch cost me most :)
http://soundcloud.com/jekvan |
|
|
|
faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Sep 6, 2011 19:52
|
i agree with you, of course!
if i didn't agree, i wouldn't release anything because nothing would ever be perfect. i have been putting out my music on the net even when i was really just a very beginner and i knew myself that it was sub-par productionwise.
but i really DO think, yes, true music is made by people who made music until they almost dropped dead. this is the only music that convinces me.
i don't want to hear crystal clear mathematical clean music, this is not what i am saying at all. i want to hear unique and personal music, i want to envision the million times nirvana practiced the music before going in the studio, i want to imagine cobain losing his voice while recording, i want to imagine noel gallagher breaking guitars on the other members heads because they drink and party and he wants to work, i want to imagine john lennon sitting with yoko on a four-track till 6am, maxi jazz busting his lyrics in front of the mirror until his head spins...
heck, some of them do drop dead!
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
|
|
|
willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Sep 6, 2011 21:04
|
Quote:
|
On 2011-09-06 18:29, faxinadu wrote:
i i don't get this whole stick to one plugin or a few plugins philosophy.
this is part of the problem with trance today.
half the music sounds like albino/vanguar/synlenth.
this is like taking your creativity and putting it in a dark box!
get creative, boldly go where no man has gone before.
seems like half the scene these days is taking those cosmosis ideas and doing them on albino. "i can do it too" music... meeeh, come on, this is not the way!!!
|
|
You are completely missing the point.
Focusing on just one synth is not something that an expert does, it is something that a beginner does to enable more efficient learning.
If you start out and you have a billion VSTs your learning will be hampered by the plethora of choice. Your ability to learn the interaction between parameters and what those parameters are will take longer.
A simple example would be acronyms...a lot of times two synths will have a similar feature but it will be labeled different. For the beginner this is intensely confusing...
Better to just stick to simple subtractive synthesis until you are comfortable with that, then move on to FM - take it slow, don't try to rush to the 'finish line' - as you will need to learn how to do many, many different things all of which take time to learn.
I'm much more creative now with 3 synths then I ever was with 20 - some limitation is a good thing. Seeking new synths and new tools without knowing how to use the tools you have is IMO not an efficient way to do things.
Once you have the basics down and you can freely understand and move between synths and your DAW, the creativity and the uniqueness of your music will improve naturally...you can't boldly go where no man has gone before if you don't know WTF you're doing.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
|
|
|
|
