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Should everyone produce?
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Oct 21, 2009 17:44
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On 2009-10-21 17:42, Inner Demon wrote:
Why do you worry about other people wasting their time?
What other people choose to do with their lives is not yours, nor my, business.
Whether someone is good or bad at producing in someone elses opinion is irrelevant, because you're not familiar with their reasons for doing it.
I used to be a competitive golf player, so statistically speaking I find that most other players suck. Yet they seem to thoroughly enjoy the game, even though I wouldn't come to watch them play. Are you seriously suggesting that I should tell people to stop doing something they enjoy just because they're no good at it from a competitive point of view?
Then there's the issue of learning curve. I used to suck at production, but I don't anymore. It took a few years. For some people quickly, others longer. Maybe they have a day job. Etc. How much time should be allotted?
Sorry for the bashing, but philosophy 101 should show you what a dead end you're in....
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brilliant!
  Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Oct 21, 2009 17:44
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PEOPLE: read all the posts before you respond, you're all taking this topic too seriously and missing out on a lot of my explanations
ESPECIALLY THIS PART THAT I SAID:
"In the end though, enjoying what you're doing is the most important thing and there should never be a restriction on that." http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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shellbound
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
601
Posted : Oct 21, 2009 17:54
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On 2009-10-21 17:43, Ascension wrote:
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On 2009-10-21 16:55, septa wrote:
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On 2009-10-21 16:20, A.Rosengren wrote:
Unfortunatly the thread came in bad timing, I was assuming, Point taken. Sorry if I offended you.
A
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you should be ashamed of yourself.
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You completely missed my summations of this topic denis.
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i was simply silently weeping for the oversaturated basket market. it was a joke. 
i know it's not really a serious post, but what kind of responses did you expect? there's really only one sensible answer to this hypothetical question, which you give yourself when asking the question.
i'm glad you asked it, though, since it motivated me to look up the intricacies of basket-weaving, in order to beef up my analogy (which unfortunatly i ended up not doing because i got sidetracked with something else). there's a lot of spoke tugging involved. kbbb'ing seems a bit easier in comparison. https://soundcloud.com/dead-end-dance
https://soundcloud.com/shellbound |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Oct 21, 2009 18:00
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Oct 21, 2009 18:07
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On 2009-10-21 17:54, septa wrote:
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On 2009-10-21 17:43, Ascension wrote:
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On 2009-10-21 16:55, septa wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-10-21 16:20, A.Rosengren wrote:
Unfortunatly the thread came in bad timing, I was assuming, Point taken. Sorry if I offended you.
A
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you should be ashamed of yourself.
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You completely missed my summations of this topic denis.
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i was simply silently weeping for the oversaturated basket market. it was a joke.
i know it's not really a serious post, but what kind of responses did you expect? there's really only one sensible answer to this hypothetical question, which you give yourself when asking the question.
i'm glad you asked it, though, since it motivated me to look up the intricacies of basket-weaving, in order to beef up my analogy (which unfortunatly i ended up not doing because i got sidetracked with something else). there's a lot of spoke tugging involved. kbbb'ing seems a bit easier in comparison.
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There's always other opinions than what I stated in the OP. I wanted to see if someone maybe felt strongly one way or the other and what their reasons for that point of view were. I like to gain perspective from a wide variety of people on subjects I don't normally get a wide range of opinions on.
In the end all my posts boil down to me being a knowledge whore .
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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A.Rosengren
Solid Snake
Started Topics :
266
Posts :
4139
Posted : Oct 21, 2009 18:21
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This is getting interesting, popcorn!
A
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Oct 21, 2009 18:25
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On 2009-10-21 18:07, Ascension wrote:
There's always other opinions than what I stated in the OP. I wanted to see if someone maybe felt strongly one way or the other and what their reasons for that point of view were. I like to gain perspective from a wide variety of people on subjects I don't normally get a wide range of opinions on.
In the end all my posts boil down to me being a knowledge whore .
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Obviously if someone thinks someone should not make tunes just because they don't like their music, is a cunt. The real question is, are them cunts, a majority in the trance scene?
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Oct 21, 2009 18:35
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I think we need to cross into some reality here and take a side (for sake of the popcorn).
If someone was playing a live pa that sounded like saw waves raping a whale, would you tell them their shit stank? I mean, like absolutely terrible, noise that you don't listen to because it would be a waste of your hearing. I think there is a way to present someone who is terrible at production with some constructive criticism (I take far more interest in what people think is wrong with my music than what they like) and give them a hint that maybe producing music isn't their thing.
We are all trying to be nice here and not infringe on another person's personal hobbies or interests (which is great), but eventually a line like I stated above could be crossed. If this happens, what would you do? I would have no problem telling them exactly how I felt about their music. I think it's also their responsibility to understand that what you tell them is just your opinion and they (the producer) can do with it whatever they please.
In the end with music it's gonna be opinion vs. opinion, so I think the biggest issue is how the person receiving the opinions reacts. I think if you tell someone you don't like their music in a constructive manner, that is completely fine. You can even end with "I don't think you should produce" or "if you play out again, I will tell everyone to run for the hills". Sometimes you have to be an ass to get a point across to some people (I know plenty of people like this).
Thoughts? Opinions? Maybe I should get a job where I actually have to do work most of the time?
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
112
Posts :
1490
Posted : Oct 21, 2009 18:42
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should everyone play the guitar?
should everyone paint?
sing?
write?
sculpt?
Everybody should be doing some art yes.
And computer music is so much fun.
Good thing is it takes an enormous amount of time and effort to actually sound "passable". Not many do this effectively.
Time = Art
(Tzolkin says...)
It is ART what awaken our god within, our creative potential is one divine thing (personal pov), everyone should express and try to create beautiful things, clever ideas, interesting new paradigms.
But this is not easy, art is a life style and it takes a whole life to really evolve ourselves as artists.
It has nothing to do with pirated software... everyone has pirated photoshop and good artists are just a few... everyone can take a pen or pencil and write / draw art... should everyone do it? i say yes...
Being the world as it is, in this technology frenzy that is revolutionizing every aspect of life i truly believe everyone is taking place in this scene and if we can benefit from something is that... this is an exponential fractal growth that is speeding up pretty quickly and forces really commited peers to stand out the masses and bring their art to another level.
Lets also remember art is fun... and beautiful fun stuff is one way of bringing happiness into ones life.
Everyone has a personal process and eventho we can dislike someone's creation, it has been said before: it's a free world.
my 2 cents |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Oct 21, 2009 18:45
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On 2009-10-21 18:35, Ascension wrote:
I think we need to cross into some reality here and take a side (for sake of the popcorn).
If someone was playing a live pa that sounded like saw waves raping a whale, would you tell them their shit stank? |
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yes.
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On 2009-10-21 18:35, Ascension wrote: I think there is a way to present someone who is terrible at production with some constructive criticism (I take far more interest in what people think is wrong with my music than what they like) and give them a hint that maybe producing music isn't their thing. |
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If that person was my friend, I would find a way to give them constructive feedback. If they were not my friend, I just wouldn't care, but I would not tell anyone that they should stop doing something they enjoyed doing, just because I believe it is not their thing. Why would anyone say that to someone?
Quote:
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On 2009-10-21 18:35, Ascension wrote:
We are all trying to be nice here and not infringe on another person's personal hobbies or interests (which is great), but eventually a line like I stated above could be crossed. If this happens, what would you do? |
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stop listening to their music and leave them do whatever makes them happy in life.
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On 2009-10-21 18:35, Ascension wrote: Sometimes you have to be an ass to get a point across to some people (I know plenty of people like this). |
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No you don't. Most importantly I never feel I HAVE to get my point across to other people about music.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Inner Demon
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
321
Posted : Oct 21, 2009 18:51
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Even a hypothetical discussion is hard to run if it contains obvious logical fallacies.
You can't say this:
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On 2009-10-21 17:44, Ascension wrote:
ESPECIALLY THIS PART THAT I SAID:
"In the end though, enjoying what you're doing is the most important thing and there should never be a restriction on that."
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and at the same time ask "should they produce?"
There's been another lenghty thread quite recently on the topic "my friends music sucks, but he doesn't realize. Should I tell him/how should I tell him" but I can't remember the name, do a search.
There's also a distinct difference in whether you promote your stinky stuff or not. If someone was playing a live pa that sounded like saw waves raping a whale I would definitely let them know it sucks, because somewhere in the chain of party organizers etc someone doing a booking must've been sleeping on the job.
- If you actively promote your music, then you are indirectly asking for feedback - and that's what you should get.
It's like X-Factor or American Idol, I mean if you think you can sing (but really can't) and stay doing that in the shower then fine. But if you go on the show, you ask for feedback and then it should be given straight IMO, from knowledgeable people obviously. I don't care how delusional people are about their stuff as long as they don't pester me with it.  |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Oct 21, 2009 18:55
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Quote:
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On 2009-10-21 18:51, Inner Demon wrote:
- If you actively promote your music, then you are indirectly asking for feedback - and that's what you should get.
It's like X-Factor or American Idol, I mean if you think you can sing (but really can't) and stay doing that in the shower then fine. But if you go on the show, you ask for feedback and then it should be given straight IMO, from knowledgeable people obviously. I don't care how delusional people are about their stuff as long as they don't pester me with it.
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End of thread.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Oct 21, 2009 18:55
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I do know people like that though DH. I know that people know someone who you try to sugar coat things with about changing something, and they don't, so you have to get up in their face about it and be very blunt. I haven't had a case where this was related to music, but I have for other things, so I know there are people out there who will only get a message if you present your viewpoint in a blunt and basically mean way.
Haha, it's like having an intervention with them about their music. Some people with a certain type of personality (often those with a social disorder) miss out on social cues that are obvious to the rest of us and only respond to what you are saying, rather than what you are trying to imply.
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : Oct 21, 2009 18:58
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^1 @ disco hooligan
let people do what theyselves enjoy.Some might need years to get an inner idea finished,no matter what genre.
Others maybe dont want sound like what already is and experiment through lots of expirieces to find theyr way.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Oct 21, 2009 19:00
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Quote:
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On 2009-10-21 18:51, Inner Demon wrote:
Even a hypothetical discussion is hard to run if it contains obvious logical fallacies.
You can't say this:
Quote:
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On 2009-10-21 17:44, Ascension wrote:
ESPECIALLY THIS PART THAT I SAID:
"In the end though, enjoying what you're doing is the most important thing and there should never be a restriction on that."
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and at the same time ask "should they produce?"
There's been another lenghty thread quite recently on the topic "my friends music sucks, but he doesn't realize. Should I tell him/how should I tell him" but I can't remember the name, do a search.
There's also a distinct difference in whether you promote your stinky stuff or not. If someone was playing a live pa that sounded like saw waves raping a whale I would definitely let them know it sucks, because somewhere in the chain of party organizers etc someone doing a booking must've been sleeping on the job.
- If you actively promote your music, then you are indirectly asking for feedback - and that's what you should get.
It's like X-Factor or American Idol, I mean if you think you can sing (but really can't) and stay doing that in the shower then fine. But if you go on the show, you ask for feedback and then it should be given straight IMO, from knowledgeable people obviously. I don't care how delusional people are about their stuff as long as they don't pester me with it.
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I was stating my own response to the topic of this thread. Just because I created this thread with the title I chose, doesn't mean that I agree with it. It was merely a topic of discussion I wished to gain some different points of view on. As the case of what you quoted, I ended up having a discussion with myself .
I realize I contradicted myself there, but I thought some people were missing what I said and assumed I thought that people who are "bad" at producing should be told to stop.
I definitely agree with what you posted though. Promoting yourself is a direct correlation to receiving feedback - very good way to put this!
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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