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Set the note of a kick ?
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orgytime
IsraTrance Full Member
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120
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1703
Posted : Oct 30, 2008 00:36
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i noticed, when i cut off a kick at the end, the shortener it gets the more the highest peak sweaps to the high freqs... that means for me that the bass of the kick makes the note, not the klick... but POF will know better than me^^
cheers
  www.soundcloud.com/orgytime |
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Spycht
Started Topics :
6
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194
Posted : Oct 30, 2008 08:13
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I've been recommended to try on the fifth of the chosen key. |
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conqueru
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
32
Posted : Oct 30, 2008 12:48
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What your talking about is the Tonic of the kick and bass. Read an article a while ago bout it.
Got the below as emailed tips from modernbeats.com. Taught me why some of my stuff just didn`t sound right.
For a long winded/technical term do a wiki search for Tonic.
Quik Tipz: Tune to the Tonic & Maximize Mixes
By ModernBeats.com
When producing Hip Hop, the single most important aspect of the drum mix is the kick. When mixed correctly, the kick serves as a solid foundation behind the whole production. However, what most engineers & producers do NOT know is that there is more to mixing kicks than mere choice of samples, compression settings, & EQ.
Hardly discussed at all, is the secret technique used by Pro's where the kicks in a mix are finely tuned to the first musical note (tonic) of a song's key. "What's the big deal about tuning a kick to the key of my song?" you might ask. Well, it's a very big deal! In fact, applying this technique correctly can set a producer apart from the sea of amateurs for evermore...
The fact is kicks DO have pitch, low frequency pitch. Therefore, in terms of a kick's pitch embedded within a song's own key signature, a kick can either work against or with the resonance of your entire mix. And perhaps even more important, without tuning a kick to the song's tonic, the entire output level of your mix will forever remain un-optimized!
What do we mean? We mean "out of tune" kicks equal a forced lower output due to low end pitch & frequency conflicts. In other words, you'll never be able to truly maximize the output of any mix until your kick resonates with the key of the song at hand. Once the kicks in a mix resonate where their pitched oscillations match the song's natural key & primary frequency, the song's dynamic range & output level potential expand greatly!
Having just introduced this powerful yet highly guarded technique, there are several crucial aspects you must learn one-by-one. Get prepared to dive into all the nitty gritty details of "Tune to the Tonic" - Part 2 is on its way!
Quik Tipz: Tune to the Tonic & Maximize Mixes
Part Two By ModernBeats.com
Before diving into further details on "Tune to the Tonic", let's quickly mention how building & constructing kicks may actually involve layering 2 or more kick samples together. For example, you may find that using one kick sample only can't meet all your needs. You may need to layer 2 or more kicks to achieve an overall desired "kick sound". One kick may be chosen for it's low end while another kick is layered over the first kick for its upper range attack or high end ambience. Layering kicks like this is fine. However, the more kicks you use, the more attention you must give to tuning each kick's pitch to the first musical note (tonic) of the song's key.
First, starting with a main kick, choose one that has an identifiable low end pitch. Kicks primarily consist of low frequency sound waves in which there is a main, underlying root pitch which can be heard as the loudest (and usually the lowest) frequency above all other combined tones. This loudest frequency is called the "tonal resonance". Once you find and identify the kick's tonal resonance, you'll need to make the kick "resonate".
You can make a kick resonate by fine tuning the kick until its loudest and lowest tonal pitch matches and blends with the tonic (first musical note) of your song's key signature. When adjusting the kick's pitch, it's highly suggested that a "cent" adjustment be used. If the software/hardware sampler does not allow such fine tuning, it's possible that you may only get very close and not an exact match with the tonic. This can cause an adverse, and unwanted, secondary wave to modulate called a "beat".
By exactly tuning your kick to the tonic of your song's key, you can be confident that the kick will "sing" and resonate in harmony with your entire song. This greatly emphasizes the chord structure of the song and prevents build up of low frequency conflicts that other instruments such as bass guitar and synth bass can introduce.
Sometimes it may be difficult to identify which note/key the kick is resonating on and thus, hard to tune to your song's key. Stay tuned for more Quik Tipz that reveal the specific techniques required to identify ANY kick's pitch, regardless of how difficult it may seem!
Quik Tipz: Find tha Kick's Tonal Resonance
By ModernBeats.com
Sometimes it may be difficult to identify which musical note or key the kick is resonating at. For an easier method in figuring which note/key the kick is resonating, temporarily transpose or pitch shift the kick sample to exactly one octave above it's root pitch. This will allow you to more easily identify the kick's key because mid to high frequency pitches are easier to discern when compared to low frequency pitches.
For further clarification of the kick's true key, you can transpose the kick's pitch up 1 additional octave and then sweep its pitch back down in octave-by-octave increments, confirming that each octave reveals the same resonating note/key as the other 2 octaves. With this greater span of referenced pitches across 3 whole octaves, you can be confident you are accurately identifying the kick's tonal resonance and key.
Lastly, upon identifying a kick's pitch, you may find the kick does not resonate exactly 100% over it's closest note or key. We highly recommend adjusting the pitch using "cent" values until the kick's peak resonance lands over the nearest musical note exactly. Repeat the above procedure for all the kicks in your production until you have identified the resonating note of each kick used.
After going through the motions a couple of times, you will no doubt have become a pro at pinpointing ANY kick's tonal resonance! Stay tuned for exciting additional tips on becoming an expert at matching a kick's tonal resonance EXACTLY with a song's key while eliminating hard to find bass conflicts!
Hope that these three Tips I found a while ago help.
Cheers,
Vic
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Oct 30, 2008 13:11
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gutter
Inactive User
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3018
Posted : Oct 30, 2008 13:14
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very nice conqueru, thank you 
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PsyTiax
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
190
Posted : Oct 30, 2008 14:00
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Nice article, but unless I'm missing something, that means that you need to have perfect pitch in order to recognize if the kick resonance is on the tonic.
...yeah, I think I'm definately missing something ! |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
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170
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Posted : Oct 30, 2008 14:54
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A.Rosengren
Solid Snake
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266
Posts :
4139
Posted : Oct 30, 2008 15:34
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I discussed this with a friend not long ago, it seems that the pitch of the kick often or always is the main contributor to the choosing of main key of the bassline while your writing.
Intresting.
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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162
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Posted : Oct 30, 2008 20:39
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kicks don t have a key , harmonics are random in percussive sounds .that means just trust your hears and eq not numbers or key note. |
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PsyTiax
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
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190
Posted : Oct 30, 2008 20:59
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Well, a kick has a resonance, which is at a given frequency.
This frequency will or will not be part of the key of your song, simple as that. |
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abraham316
Started Topics :
7
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121
Posted : Oct 31, 2008 06:19
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Oct 31, 2008 11:16
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sorry to say but it s usless , do you think in the good produced tracks you like to listen they care in what frequency the fondamental of the kick is? they dont give a fuck , they just use what sound good .as long as you think with numbers and mix with your eyes your mix wont sound pro |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Oct 31, 2008 13:11
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PoM, spend some time tuning your kick drum to the bassline or vise versa, hear the difference, and make your own conclusions on whether its useless or not, cause from the sounds of it, you've never had a go.
Why do you think drummers tune their bass drums?
How do you know if "they" (who ever they are) care to tune their kicks or not?
If you think its useless to tune the two parts that make up your bottom end, fair enough.
But it has nothing to do with mixing with numbers and eyes.
It is because people mix with their ears and spend a lot of time trying to identify the small details that will make the biggest difference, that they pick up on things like that.
Peace out.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Medea
Aedem/Medea
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Posted : Oct 31, 2008 13:15
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i think everythink that can help to improve the mix is worthy. Ears are most important for sure, but eyes and numbers are also ok 
http://soundcloud.com/aedem |
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psychowave
IsraTrance Full Member
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52
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217
Posted : Oct 31, 2008 13:40
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well...at end...you ear is the only method to identify the kick tune? uping the octave, fine tuning, and back down a octave...
Dont have a more precise method?
Times ago...i read a article about this...when you find the note of kick by a spectrum analysis..but i don´t find that now...anyone know about this?
Thanks
Natan |
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