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separating parts... need help from a wizard...
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Fingax
Cosmic Station
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
1235
Posted : Feb 9, 2005 22:33
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hello..
i've gott a question for you..
sometimes i've got some sounds that just need to be wide or something like it. usualy i use some stereo xpander or something but i've got a question..
if i get the sample and pan the sound to left and then make a copy of the same sound in difrent chanell and pan the sound to right, it will be much more wide and without any special processor taking quality to sample and dont become louder  this is good solution.. i wonder if we should do this in every sounds, i mean , not the bass/kick line, but if i make it in most synths and some rythms the track should became more louder without any more gain.
Is this a trick? or we sould not do like this to make the sound goes bigger?
of course i dont mean any mono file..
its lika paning the all traxck to left and then a copy on the right.. music dont win more gain but became louder..
im shure this is something worth exploring if its done well..
Help please...
10x in advance
Boom
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Feb 9, 2005 22:57
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Are you saying that the tracks actually is perceived louder, but the level on the master out remains the same?
Sound very mysterious to me.
I do not have an explanation why that would be in that case.
Also I do not know if you also mean that it would increase your stereo width.
If it does I would guess it either have to do with the phase correlation in your original stereo files or the mixer in your software.
If you would delay one signal by only a few ms you do get a very obvious stereo widening effect, thats in fact how a stereo expander works.
If it sounds better to you why not.
I know producers who used to double up sounds that way on analogue mixers and thought it was really good.
I never understood why that is, and didn't really try those techniques a lot.
But keep exploring, and maybe make a test mixing a bunch of tracks together using the double tracks and one version as similar as you can as normal and compare the results.
I sure would find it interesting to have a listen to the results.
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Fingax
Cosmic Station
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
1235
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 14:47
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[quote]
On 2005-02-09 22:57, Spindrift wrote:
Are you saying that the tracks actually is perceived louder, but the level on the master out remains the same?
yep its that.
I do not have an explanation why that would be in that case.
Also I do not know if you also mean that it would increase your stereo width.
If it does I would guess it either have to do with the phase correlation in your original stereo files or the mixer in your software.
i think its this. when i put the original stereo file into left chanel and a same copy in bus but right panned, this puts the same sound in difrent chanels so it wil be more wider than the original signal. and the volume continiues the same on each chanel but because each chanel is 100% panned on each side the signal will became more clear and wider. im using this technic now to put some sounds in "front" instead the compressor or limiter or expander or anything that change the original sound caracteristic.
If you would delay one signal by only a few ms you do get a very obvious stereo widening effect, thats in fact how a stereo expander works.
If it sounds better to you why not.
yep i know that but that will give a reverb to the sound, and once again im trying to destroy the less possible the original file.
I know producers who used to double up sounds that way on analogue mixers and thought it was really good.
I never understood why that is, and didn't really try those techniques a lot.
i think this is thw way how we can take full advantage of the headsize of a original stereo sample, because it not increases the volume cause its distributed on each chanel so they never cross toghether so ther's no freq saturation
But keep exploring, and maybe make a test mixing a bunch of tracks together using the double tracks and one version as similar as you can as normal and compare the results.
I sure would find it interesting to have a listen to the results.
hehehh thats the way im trying this technic now a days and im up to see what will be the results. So far im not afarid and my hears are trying to see if this is so good as it seems. 
Thank you very much for your time spindrift 
all the best
boom
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billy ambulance
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
43
Posts :
560
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 15:03
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its is better to record 2 versions of the same line instead of copy the same phrase. it will give you more "life" to the phrase.
you can also use the same line but alter one of them with flanger/phaser etc..
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Lithium
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
646
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 15:07
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hi fingax
i´ll also give it a try
just a question, do you that with the sound already exported to .wav, or do you open two midi channels connected to the same vsts to do the panning?and only after export both midi channels panned to the same .wav file?
cheers 
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Fingax
Cosmic Station
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
1235
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 15:12
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hi lithium
is its in a wav or midi is the same principle. but i always like to have everything to wav. usualy i have 2 version of the track. 1 in midi where i make the sounds and other project for mix the samples.
give it a try couse will make your sound richer, but dont make it for all kinds of sounds. im trying to see in wich is better. usually sounds with strong middles became killer. sounds too hi not so good. but all depends what u want..
and yes i make a sample of the two chanels. so at the end i have a sample much more good sound quality than the original one without any vst destructing the original wav. or midi sound or wathever.
please tell me what was your results
booom |
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Fingax
Cosmic Station
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
1235
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 15:17
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Quote:
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On 2005-02-10 15:03, billy ambulance wrote:
its is better to record 2 versions of the same line instead of copy the same phrase. it will give you more "life" to the phrase.
you can also use the same line but alter one of them with flanger/phaser etc..
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this is other issue my friend
not bad idea but will turn your original sample into psy something.. hehehh
its good to creat phase distortion and aply effects only in one part os sound (chanel) but its not for eq or master pruposes.
about have 2 difrent chanels i also think will be better, but will take double disc space and the difrence is not so big if you have killer d/a a/d convertors like i have in RME and i almost cant see any difrence when converting d to a or a to digital. Rme rocks big time with its super convertors.
but thanks very much for your advice ill keep that in mind
booom |
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Feb 14, 2005 15:31
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hmmm... interesting stuff...
the explanation maybe in the software you're using
old analog pro mixers only had mono channels, so a stereo channel would have to be connected to two mono channels panned l/r and i suppose it didn't change the sound...
...but i'm not sure
if you works, you should use it then
thanks for sharing your experiments w/ us fingx
[[[[]]]]
roll a joint or STFU :) |
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Fugga
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
203
Posted : Sep 15, 2005 19:55
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i'm not to sure about this, but i rember something like 1db + 1db = 3db.
weird but true, although i am not sure if this aplies to your technique becuause of the panning.
hmmm |
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Sep 16, 2005 10:53
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That's strange, i would think that you would again end up with a stereo file if you take a stereo file and put the left channel on the far left and the right channel on the far right (and don't delay one of these channels). Maybe it has to do with the "pan-law" your sequencer or mixer is using. Check this kind of boring paper if you're interested in more background on this: http://world.std.com/~griesngr/pan_laws.pdf |
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illusions
Erebus
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
626
Posted : Sep 17, 2005 00:26
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I have actually tried comparing the 2 methods you talked about. Widening the stereo field with seperate audio files panned in different directions, and using a good Stereo Widener. Found absolutely no difference - Unfortunately I don't remember what the fx plugin was that I used, might have been from the Waves package.
If it works for you though - do it I've done it quite a few times with great results.
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