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"Sensient" Bass line reconstruction

PHAT

Started Topics :  1
Posts :  1
Posted : Dec 24, 2015 12:55:00
Hi there everyone..merry xmas and happy new year to you, guys!

But right to the point now

I'm having hard times to reproduce this kind of bass line as you can hear from the youtube link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hamHMLwELE8






I was trying to reproduce it using Massive, should be the right kind of plugin for such a sound, no?
The bass line is most probably in A0 or A#0 and slightly pitched over the time to B?
or it is just a simple cut off modulation?

It's most probably side chained as well, isn't it?
I'm having also problems to identify how midi notes are layered..Is there only one note per each beat starting in the middle of the beat or are there 2 notes per beat?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!
knocz
Moderator

Started Topics :  40
Posts :  1151
Posted : Dec 26, 2015 01:54
Hi there!

This is actually a hard one (at least with my in-ear 30$ Sennheisers) You've got me rolling here thinking of this, sorry in advance for suck a long reply.

It ain't the typical kbbb psytrance variation, and that's great! I know a bunch of guys (dark psytrance) who tell me "don't kbbb, just constantly bbbbbbbb and layer a kick on top of that" - is this wrong? no I like to not overlap the kick and bass to try to keep things cleaner, so I can have a "bigger kick and a bigger bass at the same time", but I'm most probably just lying to myself with this. Still, Bill, The Great is totally right when saying you shouldn't have a big kick and a big bassline, and I think this "Sensient" bass is a true example of this.

Quote:

On 2015-12-24 12:55:00, PHAT wrote:
I was trying to reproduce it using Massive, should be the right kind of plugin for such a sound, no?


Well, synth wise, I never find that "this plugin can replicate this sound", more that "most plugins can replicate most sounds" And with such a tool as Massive, you can do so much in it, so yeah you can definitely use it.. but I bet you won't need most of what that tool has to offer to replicate this.

If I were to recreate this, I would use the standard saw wave + sub-octave sine wave for subs, deeply filtered. Not much envelope on the filter, but enough so each note goes "Vhoooo", and play it each eight notes. So,
K---K---
B-B-B-B-
so this makes that constant VhooVhooVhooVhooVhooVhooVhoo that the tune spits out on the bass frequencies.

But I think that the beauty of this beat is in the kick - it isn't huge, it isn't big, it's mainly there to mark the tempo and give just a slight low end punch. The bass if huge and filling and in-your-face with this heavy texture, so the beat doesn't need a big kick at all.

Amp envelope wise this could be interesting - because since this is like a "constant bass sound wobbling each eight note", maybe we could get away with increasing the release and giving the amp a bit of attack so each note blends together, and sampling that! (monophonic synth mode will help you prevent having multiple notes at once, but this might not be what we want here )

Quote:

On 2015-12-24 12:55:00, PHAT wrote:
The bass line is most probably in A0 or A#0 and slightly pitched over the time to B?
or it is just a simple cut off modulation?


I'm sorry I can't quite hear the A or A#, layering the track on Ableton and playing a sine wave besides it makes me believe it's all in B during the whole tune (and maybe B1 :S) Again, don't take my words as exact, I can easily be wrong (and tone deaf )

Quote:

On 2015-12-24 12:55:00, PHAT wrote:
It's most probably side chained as well, isn't it?


Everyone who will tell you what they know because someone else told them about it would say yes. I disagree and try to avoid defaulting to side-chains on the bass - I haven't actually added one on a beat in years - tight envelopes and compression just seems enough for me
For the guys who love the bbbbbbb and layer a kick on it, they have sidechain. The idea is to have a bass like a machine gun , constantly pounding and fillign the atmosphere with the main texture, and the kick just sets the tempo - instead of the kick driving the whole tune.
In this case if there is sidechain, it's subtle, and maybe just on the low frequencies - just a little bit to clean it up when the kicks comes in, but this could also be a good EQ.

Quote:

On 2015-12-24 12:55:00, PHAT wrote:
I'm having also problems to identify how midi notes are layered..Is there only one note per each beat starting in the middle of the beat or are there 2 notes per beat?


Hmmm I don't know I say it's 2 notes per beat as eight-notes, but no idea if each one is layered. It sounds to me that every single note is the same, but since on the down-beat there's also a kick, it's possible that the "down-beat bass note" could be a single note, while the second one a chord.. it's most likely a matter of trial and error (and, when using FM stuff, chords are amazing )

I hope I helped..
          Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz
PHAT

Started Topics :  1
Posts :  1
Posted : Dec 26, 2015 11:42
Hi Knocz.

First of all let me thank you for an exhausting reply and helpful insights.

"I say it's 2 notes per beat as eight-notes" agree with you, however if it is so, then side chain compression would be needed, no? or are you saying that simple EQ to the kick would do the trick, even without using sidechain? hmmm I need to try that...

If I were to recreate this, I would use the standard saw wave + sub-octave sine wave for subs, deeply filtered. Not much envelope on the filter, but enough so each note goes "Vhoooo", and play it each eight notes. So,
K---K---
B-B-B-B-
fully agree with you on this one

regarding the Amp envelope: I don't know If I get you correctly
so you suggest using slight attack, and slight release to get the effect of "constant bass line wobbling each 8th note) without having a single midi note, right?

What about the cutoff frequency? what actually makes the sound wobbling here? I should be using another envelope to modulate the cutoff slightly, right?

Once again: Thank you very much for your reply, have a nice weekend and wish you all the best to the new year!
knocz
Moderator

Started Topics :  40
Posts :  1151
Posted : Dec 26, 2015 14:37
Quote:

On 2015-12-26 11:42, PHAT wrote:
if it is so, then side chain compression would be needed, no? or are you saying that simple EQ to the kick would do the trick, even without using sidechain? hmmm I need to try that...


Yes, side-chain shouldn't be the default approach - yeah it's useful to quickly duck down a channel based on another one, but if we EQ our kick so it's thin and not so much low end (since a kick is a sweeping wave, it can use a lot of frequencies), and in our bass maybe take out just a little low where the kick is prominent, we can make'em flow together quite nicely. For sure when the kick comes in, there will be a slight bump (if it is a powerful kick, it will be a huge bump, so lets make it small ), but that what we want, to the beat pulses each beat

You can also use sidechain linked to a filter or to the EQ, so the bass's low end is slightly reduced when the kick comes, but is fully there when the kick is not.

In the end, since I don't hear much "pumping", I assume the guy went very light on a bass sidechain, if present, and also lenient on a beat-buss compressor. But there's nothing like experimenting

Quote:

On 2015-12-26 11:42, PHAT wrote:
regarding the Amp envelope: I don't know If I get you correctly
so you suggest using slight attack, and slight release to get the effect of "constant bass line wobbling each 8th note) without having a single midi note, right?


Yeah more or less It was a thought, like give each note 2 seconds of release and let it rip - most likely you'll just get mud like this, but for sure you can find something useful and make something out of this..
What this beat doesn't seem to have IMO is a "volume cut" in the bass sound in-between notes, thus we can experiment with all sort of things that make sound just go on

Quote:

On 2015-12-26 11:42, PHAT wrote:
What about the cutoff frequency? what actually makes the sound wobbling here? I should be using another envelope to modulate the cutoff slightly, right?


This is always up to the tune, the source, and to taste In this tune the cutoff freq on the bass is low, particularly low compared to much of the post-2008 stuff (when producers use higher cutoff frequencies, or don't cut at all and use the bass as a main lead).
I say experiment without and filter modulation envelope, get your cutoff where you want it to be (no modulation - no "wob wob" - yet ), and when you are happy with that, use the filter envelope to make it move more or less like your mouth moves to change a specific sound.

I think the wobbling comes from the filter modulation envelope, on each eight note. When the note one comes on, the envelope will open the filter a little, giving it a bit of "vh", while the envelope sustain will go "ooo". So, a single long note goes vhoooooo, and each time you give it a new note-on, you can make it go "vh" again

But there is always more than one way to do it, and we could easily pull it off with a single long note (7minutes ) throughout the tune, and using a LFO (at eight notes ) to make it wobble. I don't like dubstep, I don't do this, and I don't recommend this either But maybe with a saw wave on the LFO we can pull it off.
Or, some standing waves (there's another technical name for this which I don't recall), slightly detuned, to they "pulse" automatically - it would just be a matter of making sure the "synchronization pulses" are in time with this idea (eight notes), but since this is a single note tune its quite simple to fine tune the bass synth to do exactly this, sample it, and it's perfect across the entire tune.

Have fun!          Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz
smoker
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  115
Posts :  873
Posted : Jan 4, 2016 18:42
it's really hard to hear it
but here i make a video it may give you some directions





          -------------------------------------------------
https://soundcloud.com/user-537936268
Fungophago


Started Topics :  9
Posts :  81
Posted : Mar 13, 2016 08:58
Ya, sounds like
K---K---
B-B-B-B-
A-b-A-B filter cuts to make it so bouncy. Also heavy sidechain and relatively high cut kick. try to cut your kick at 55-60 hz.
When you set your bassnote on the kick replace it slightly to the right, such that kick klick and filter click are not on top of each other...           https://soundcloud.com/fungophago
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