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Russian site has ripped Cytopia.org tracks
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Jul 19, 2007 06:19
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On 2007-07-19 04:11, UnderTow wrote:
For one, the Bank of England is not privately owned.
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And you trusted what you read in the sidebar of google video on that?
First of all look at the URL:
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk
Does it say .gov.uk?
Does government institutions in the UK have Executive Directors?
This is what they say on their webpage:
"The Bank of England was founded in 1694 to act as the Government's banker and debt-manager"
It was a private institution acting as the governments banker when it was funded and it still is.
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Personally I lost interest when the guy was using the bible to bolster his point. Never a good sign. |
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That's your loss if your have such issues so you shut of as soon as the bible is mentioned.
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But yes, the Federal reserve model is pretty lame. But frankly, I think allot of things in the US are very twisted and illogical... and, this is the important part when watching american conspircay videos, isn't how the whole world functions. (Thank goodness for that!) |
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It was from the UK the idea of a privately owned central bank came.
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I don't know whether the IMF is privately owned or not but IMO that is irrelevant. Edit: Irrelevant because it is about who controls it. Frankly I don't think it is privately owned. |
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I guess it depends on what you mean with owned.
They have some directors form different countries and try to give the impression that they are some kind of democratic idealistic organisation.
But the money comes from bankers and they rake the profit from the interest they charge.
If the loans cannot be paid on the other hand we taxpayers have to foot the bill.
So it is a profit generating organisation for bankers but a cost for the taxpayer.
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Not quite. The money is controlled to stop inflation. That benefits everyone! |
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That's what they claim their purpose is.
But look what happened in the states after they let private bankers take control over the money supply.
Bankers make maximum amount of money from fluctuations in the economy, not from it being stable.
Now we have bankers in control over the amount of money available and if you like to trust them when they say they are looking to keep a stable low inflation economy then ok...I don't and I would be interested in knowing what basis you have for claiming that they are actually stopping inflation.
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I'm not saying that the system is perfect and certainly not peachy.  I am saying that the problem aren't the systems as such. Getting rid of financial systems and the concept of loans is NOT the solution. There is absolutely no point in throwing out the baby with the bath water. |
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I'm not saying that there can be no financial institutions or no loans.
But if you agree that the system is not that great, then you have to look at what the problems is.
One thing is for sure IMO, our economy is far to heavily based on loans and interest.
It's not like all economic activity would size unless everyone lead all the time.
The money could just as well be created out of thin air from the government, but it's in the hands of bankers and we have to pay their interest.
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What I am saying is that it is actually allot more complex than what can be shown in a conspiracy video (even if it is more than 3 hours long!) It isn't black or white. The system is neither perfect nor totally flawed.
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Watch the video and dispute any facts or bible quotes in there...that's at least a start but for sure there is more to it.
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Especially in the US... but again, the problem isn't the system. The problem in this particular case is what politicians do with the tax money. |
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43.5% of GDP is national debt in the UK so I wouldn't say that it's mostly a US problem.
And what politicians do with the money is influenced by the system.
Since Germany got a lot of cash from the bankers for weapons, when should the UK do?
Just let them roll over them with their superior military force?
They where forced to lend as well, and that is a problem with the system not stupid politicians.
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Sure but most companies would not even exist if it wasn't for a capital loan to start it up in the first place! So either we pay a bit of interest when we buy a product or ... that product doesn't even exist. (Ok, I'm exaggerating a bit but it isn't too far from the truth).
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The concept of money loans really is a good thing. It is an equaliser more than anything else! |
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Just because you cannot think of another way than the current prevailing one doesn't mean that nothing would exists if it wasn't like it is now.
The money that is paid by governments and companies as interest doesn't have to end up in some bankers pockets.
It could be handled by the government or non-profit organisations who dispense loans to start-ups or housing.
And if we didn't have to get extorted all the time by the bankers we would be wealthier, which means we or for example our parents could have better chances of funding ourselves.
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Rubbish. Whether the Federal reserve is privately owned or not would automagically mean that I have enough capital to buy a house. (The BoE is not privately owned nor is the Nederlandsche bank).
Is it right that the federal reserve is privately owned? Probably not. Does that mean that the concept of loans in itself is a bad thing? No. It just means that some people abused the system... don't blame the system.
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I don't about the Nederlandsche bank and it hardly too influential in world economics, but I don't know where you got the idea from that BoE would be government owned.
And I'm not saying loans has to be all bad, but having the whole world owing a few individuals and having to constantly pay them interest is.
And even if we maybe would not all straight away be able to start any business we like or buy houses if we didn't have the extra burden that the current monetary system gives us, we would need to lend less because we would be better off.
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It might be corrupted and flawed but it is the best system available right now. I would say that the public does absolutely benefit. |
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"it's the best system available now"???
What systems are you comparing....or how can you be so sure there is no better system?
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Sure there are some people that are filthy rich and abuse the system but just have a look around you. The "public", aka you and me, are better off than people were 1000 years ago by a very very long shot. That is the direct benefit to the public.
Ignoring that is completely missing how economies function. |
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Oh...so all our progress in the last 1000 years is ascribed to the monetary system that has been in effect for the last couple of hundred years?
I hope you realise that there is more factors to our development than the monetary system we are using and that it's hard to say where we would be today if that system had looked different.
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I wrote what I did because the concept of loans exist from individuals to nations. It doesn't help to generalise the whole concept based on the examples of abuse. It just confuses the real issues that do exist.
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I wasn't making generalisation but rather pointing to a specific example that makes the system we have show very real issues.
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The problem is not the financial systems. THe problem is people that abuse them. |
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A system that is easily abused is a problem.
You can't just dream that there will be no people that will not care about profit above all and find ways to abuse the system.
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But the financial systems are irrelevant. The problem is the war, the "opportunities" than ensued and the people that abused the situation. |
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I'm not so sure that the fact that we have a system that created the enormous profit opportunities from wars did help creating the conflicts as well.
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In more primitive times someone might have set up a toll at a bridge leading out from sieged town to extort the poor refugees fleeing for their lives. Should they have banned bridges? Of course not. The bridge in that scenario is not the problem just as the financial systems themselves are not the problem now. |
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No, the problem is not the bridge, but the toll booth.
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Sure and they need to be stopped (in as as that is possible) but not by removing financial systems. |
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Removing maybe not, but reforming them could for sure be one way of addressing the problem.
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Conspiracies certainly do exist. Do a small handful of people control the world? I sincerely doubt it. Do some people have much more power than others and abuse it? Sure. |
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If they are a small handful can be discussed, but I think most of us realise today that it's not the elected leaders that is in control over the world today.
  (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
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http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Jul 19, 2007 06:20
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Just a few quotes to round of this endless discussion for now:
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws."
Mayer Amschel Rothschild, 1790
"I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution - taking from the federal government their power of borrowing."
Thomas Jefferson, 1798
"When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes... Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain."
Napoleon Bonaparte, 1815
"The division of the United States into federations of equal force was decided long before the Civil War by the high financial powers of Europe. These bankers were afraid that the US, if they remained as one block, and as one nation, would attain economic and financial independence, which would upset their financial domination over the world."
Otto von Bismark chancellor of Germany 1876
"The government should create, issue and circulate all the currency and credit needed to satisfy the spending power of the government and the buying power of consumers..... The privilege of creating and issuing money is not only the supreme prerogative of Government, but it is the Government's greatest creative opportunity. By the adoption of these principles, the long-felt want for a uniform medium will be satisfied. The taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest, discounts and exchanges. The financing of all public enterprises, the maintenance of stable government and ordered progress, and the conduct of the Treasury will become matters of practical administration. The people can and will be furnished with a currency as safe as their own government. Money will cease to be the master and become the servant of humanity. Democracy will rise superior to the money power."
Abraham Lincoln
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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cytopia
Cytopia.org
Started Topics :
61
Posts :
329
Posted : Jul 19, 2007 09:00
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Some people make the world, the system and all organizations within it sound like they were designed with the specific intent of pure evil -and this is just bullshit.
Interestingly, the motivation for people to desperately cling to such a naive world view is that they themselves dont want to develope.
Its used as an excuse to not participate, to not be a part of the world and part of the solution to the problems that we really do have (and the problem is not that the system is evil, the problem is ignorance and underdeveloped value systems).
Its natural to be intimidated by the corruption that does exist, and the superficial values that are abundant, and role money does play in life.
But incoherent ranting is not the solution to any of those problems. The solution will require all our participation, but using different values. And yes, we can be deeply cynical -but thats not a solution either.
Banks can be postive, they are not by defination organizations with evil intent. You may convince yourself they are, but I would suggest you go work at one and see what activities they are really into, where they invest the money, and what interest rates are really given -and see what people and companies and institutions do with that money -and how that affects real people, in real life.
Its not all bad.
Cytopia.org
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Jul 19, 2007 18:25
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Stop projecting your own naivety on others! You're ridiculous. To believe that banking system was designed to help you is naive. To face the truth about real reasons is to see that we are all slaves. We have debt since the day we're born. Person born in debt is not a free person... it's a slave.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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RenderingRebel
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
293
Posted : Jul 19, 2007 21:37
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Wow what a huge discussion here 
Anyways, fuckup shit sander... were it tracks froms unsigned artists? or the bigger names?
SQL: http://www.myspace.com/sqlmusic
Coming up: Releases
Planned: make tracks |
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cytopia
Cytopia.org
Started Topics :
61
Posts :
329
Posted : Jul 19, 2007 21:54
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On 2007-07-19 21:37, RenderingRebel wrote:
Wow what a huge discussion here
Anyways, fuckup shit sander... were it tracks froms unsigned artists? or the bigger names?
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Hoi, Alles goed? The tracks that caught my eye were my own. I also saw some by Kispro whcih is also Cytopia home label. There is loads of albums from the labels we distribute for, but no way of knowing if they got it via us, or other ways. It's not so bad as long as people who DJ or care enough, buy the music.
I think the discussion here is more philisophical about the whole notion of money and paying for things...
So Shamantrixx, I didnt want to get into this -but now I am curious- how did this happen, when did who sit down and create money with the explicit intension of enslaving people??
Was it the Illiminati lizard alien politicians?
Cytopia.org
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Jul 19, 2007 22:58
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On 2007-07-19 21:54, cytopia wrote:
how did this happen, when did who sit down and create money with the explicit intension of enslaving people??
Was it the Illiminati lizard alien politicians? |
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When you have a population that doesn't give a fuck about how others make for living and when individualism gets distorted into egoism than it is just a question of when someone will try to use that situation for his own purpose. This world had it's share of mass murderers, child abusers and all sorts of fucked up people who turned to be quite evil. So I don't see ANY reason to believe that few politicians or royal family members went down that road. In fact... it would be a miracle if it turned out any different. And since we're egoistic as hell nobody bothered to notice what's happening.
Einstein long ago said something like this:
The world is not a bad place because of few bad people. It is bad because majority of good people does nothing to stop those few bad ones from acting in that manner.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Jul 19, 2007 23:42
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what a throughly subjective statement.
If only we could all agree on what is good and bad eh?
PS concious individualism could quite neatly be defined as egotism - your error is to perceive egotism as neccesairily 'wrong'.
Perhaps we might say, 'Don't cash cheques your ego can't afford?' .
http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Jul 20, 2007 04:23
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On 2007-07-19 23:42, Speakafreaka wrote:
what a throughly subjective statement.
If only we could all agree on what is good and bad eh?
PS concious individualism could quite neatly be defined as egotism - your error is to perceive egotism as neccesairily 'wrong'.
Perhaps we might say, 'Don't cash cheques your ego can't afford?'
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It's a quote and a wrong one. If I remember it was "your ego is rising a credits your body can't cash". But that's beside the point.
All statements are subjective. We can only try to give objective descriptions of our subjective perception. Everything we see is just a model or representation of the outside world. So there are no things like objective statements.
Ego is a tool we have to have... just like emotions, discriminative logic, intelligence etc. Ego is the primary tool that we have from reptilian phase of evolution and it's been a while since we've been trough that stage. So when Ego takes over the control of our life (due to trauma) than we end up in this bottomless pit barreling to complete extinction of life on the planet. So I don't feel that most primitive part of our brain should be the most prominent and decision making part. That's turning humans back to cave man level with nuclear weapon. But maybe that's just what needs to be done... we'll see
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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Inner Demon
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
321
Posted : Jul 20, 2007 11:31
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It's a quote and a wrong one. If I remember it was "your ego is rising a credits your body can't cash".
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LOL. I've never heard the quote, whichever it is it certainly isn't what you've written because it doesn't even make any sense to read.
Do you choose not to understand what people are saying or does it just come naturally? 
Do you sit with a dictionary and translate everything you read literally?
Speaka said 'what a throroughly subjective statement'. Of course all statements are subjective, how could they not be? That is not what he meant. He was referring to the fact that your statements are particularly laden with value judgement.
Seeing as the allmighty Shamantrixx is dictating everything from what is a human activity (without even understanding the concept) to what is good and bad, maybe you should apply for the position of God, I'm sure he needs a rest now and then....
I should get back to you about the previous posts but I really don't have the energy right now. Since you twist everything people say into something they didn't say or mean, debating gets kinda hard. |
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Inner Demon
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
321
Posted : Jul 20, 2007 11:46
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Philosophically and scientifically speaking all statements are subjective, which is fairly obvious since we are the subject (the observer) and will always be in the way of ourselves.
In daily language there are however, many objective statements. Let's see:
'The sun is shining from a blue sky today'
This is an objective statement as the person next to you can look up and agree that the sun is shining from a blue sky and will not feel that your statement was biased by whatever value system you may have.
Discussion arguments need a degree of this 'objectivity' in order to be valid and convincing or else one may utter ANYTHING. So a 'thoroughly subjective statement' is one in which nothing can be confirmed by anyone and thus is rubbish from a discussion standpoint. |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Jul 20, 2007 12:20
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On 2007-07-20 11:31, Inner Demon wrote:
LOL. I've never heard the quote, whichever it is it certainly isn't what you've written because it doesn't even make any sense to read. |
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It is from a quite famous movie and it makes sense but obviously only to people with more than half of brain cells functioning.
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On 2007-07-20 11:31, Inner Demon wrote:
Do you choose not to understand what people are saying or does it just come naturally?
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Oh... I practice a lot. I actually don't like people who use language without understanding it. Like with objectivity... that just pulls you into illusion and make you believe things you've never seen. As seen on TV and shit like that. So it's good to be aware of such misleading notions of "modern" language.
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On 2007-07-20 11:31, Inner Demon wrote:
Speaka said 'what a throroughly subjective statement'. Of course all statements are subjective, how could they not be? That is not what he meant. He was referring to the fact that your statements are particularly laden with value judgement. |
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And who's value system is more objective? What makes his values more objective than mine since we don't talk about yellow sun on a blue sky but rather about abstract human concepts? How can we define objectivity in this case? You're full of shit!
Do you even think about what you write or you've actually hoped that it will do the trick?
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On 2007-07-20 11:31, Inner Demon wrote:
Since you twist everything people say into something they didn't say or mean, debating gets kinda hard.
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Yeah mate... when you write one thing but meaning to say something other than what you've wrote and still both lack sense or concept... It's hard to debate... I agree. Maybe you should go for something less complex and leave the debates to those who do it with ease
And for the position of God... I am God. You are also just like everybody else is. But until you believe in economy and support slavery you will fail to see the obvious.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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cytopia
Cytopia.org
Started Topics :
61
Posts :
329
Posted : Jul 20, 2007 13:20
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Grow up. Posting like this seriously ruins a decent thread. I think moderators should remove abusive contrary posts that make no sense and do not contribute to the disussion at hand.
Cytopia.org
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the daleks
The Daleks
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
584
Posted : Jul 20, 2007 13:33
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klippel
Stereofeld
Started Topics :
91
Posts :
1153
Posted : Jul 20, 2007 13:47
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just look at how this thread ended up... it just fits the picture.
if even in a psy forum with assumably open minded people around a discussion ends up as fucked up as this one then who is surpised that our world looks like it does..
our problems are not any kind of systems. our problem is called humanity... every human has fears, dreams, obsessions, desires, hopes.. everybody is midlead and confused, lacking the inner greatness and clarity to find our way in the darkness...
we are just human beeings with all the imperfectness to it... and nobody can be blamed for that.. and who are we to judge other beings...?
welcome to the real life. its just our human nature that is mirrored in our world. any inbalance in us is presented nicely....
start fighting your inner demons, and don´t blame it on other people.....
blaming on other people just shows u that your balls are not big enough to take on your own challenge..
start with facing you inner demons and we might get somewhere... sometimes..
love´n´light |
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