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Russian site has ripped Cytopia.org tracks
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Jul 7, 2007 19:32
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Who said that they don't work? You have to try it in order to conclude that it doesn't work.
Art and professions are two opposite poles of creating. Art is when you make something novel free from knowing what has been done so far, and professionals are people who practice same things over and over again until they can do it close to perfection. So you see... there really is no such thing as professional art. It's a meaningless linguistic phrase with significant amount of paradox in it.
Art is done only as a hobby because only when we operate in non-survival mode we can create new patterns. When you're in survival mode you always reach for existing and "prove to work" patterns.
  "It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Jul 7, 2007 20:01
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what about velasquez, michelangelo, or musicians like Bach, Mozart or performers like Vengerov, Ashkenazy or Rattle.
These people are professional artists - in fact, some of the greatest artists ever.
I disagree strongly with your point 
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
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549
Posted : Jul 7, 2007 20:27
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Non of those make for living with their art. Mostly they ware from well founded background and belonged to some "elite" clubs or "secret" societies. Their existence did not depend on their preforming.
Again... professional artist is a paradoxical statement. It's like to say "disciplined spontaneity". This is not a matter of my point of view... it's self evident. Just because you can combine those two words in one sentence does not mean that there is any meaning in that combination.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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Inner Demon
Started Topics :
6
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321
Posted : Jul 7, 2007 20:58
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On 2007-07-07 17:57, shamantrixx wrote:
Excuse me, but what's so infuriating in it? Is it the truth of it or is there some rational or logical inaccuracy to it?
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Ehhmm.. I'm afraid there is a logical fallacy to your argument here.
Anyone familiar with basic economic principles should obviously know about supply and demand, so I'm not going further into that as I'm sure its not needed here.
Shamantrixx, you're saying that a provider of a service (supplier) should only get paid if there was a prior demand for that service. Your point seems to be that if one imposes stuff onto the market that nobody asked for, then you have no right to charge for it... am I correct?
There are 2 reasons this argument does not hold water:
1) The market is only a tool to show you what's available - it is perfectly ok NOT buy to what you don't want. This is the function of the market. And if you DO want it, then we have a demand, don't we...
..which leads to the next point...
2) Not much development would happen in any area if it was driven by demand. Supply very often creates demand. Do you think anyone ASKED for computers and all the incredible stuff we can do with them before they were invented? Hell, most of it could not even be envisioned way back by the craziest philosophers. Same goes for music, a masterpiece isn't made because there is a demand for it...
I would put it this way: In an economy you ALWAYS have the right to charge money for anything that you produce, the question is simply whether there will be a demand for your product somewhere along the line.. and if there is, fine, you can sell it and feel good about that. If no demand appears, well then it doesn't really matter if you charge for it or not because nobody's going to use your product anyway.
Yes, professional artist is a paradoxical statement but its not meant to be taken literally, it just clarifies that you're an artist for a living rather than a hobby artist... none of which matters for the discussion really because both are equally entitled to charge money for their work. |
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Inner Demon
Started Topics :
6
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321
Posted : Jul 7, 2007 21:12
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On 2007-07-07 19:32, shamantrixx wrote:
professionals are people who practice same things over and over again until they can do it close to perfection. So you see... there really is no such thing as professional art.
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Wrong.
'Professional' means that you support yourself by that activity, it says nothing about how you do it nor about how well you do it (although you probably do it well if you're able to support yourself from it).
Of course there is no such thing as professional art, but the expression 'professional artist' only implies that you don't also have another job, thats it.
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Jul 7, 2007 21:39
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On 2007-07-07 20:27, shamantrixx wrote:
Non of those make for living with their art. Mostly they ware from well founded background and belonged to some "elite" clubs or "secret" societies. Their existence did not depend on their preforming.
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This statement is completely inaccurate. Check the histories out for yourself... honestly.
Bach was a court musician - he composed for money. Mozart toured the world, often on the virge of poverty, earning what money he could. Vengerov, Ashkenazy and Rattle are all highly, highly paid musicians, at the very peak of what is acheivable artistically.
Velasquez sought to acheive higher position within society through art - almost the epitome of a professional acheiver, yet can you say his paintings are not artistic? Michelangelo was also a jobbing artist, under the protection of a patron - he 'sang for his supper' so to speak.
Mozart is the epitome of disciplined spontenaity, as indeed is Bach. What about MC Escher?
What is Jazz, apart form disciplined spontenaity?
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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Psynaesthesian
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
30
Posts :
557
Posted : Jul 7, 2007 22:04
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naughty naughty russian site *twack twack*!!!!!!
u know, i come from a banking background and through the years that worked and enjoyed my job then, i realised that no matter how much satisfaction one gets doing what he loves best ... if he aint gonna eat to keep his grey cells alive ... well then it's just plain suicidal.
It's very nice to live by the ideal principles of PLUR, but if u take a closer and saner look around you .. u might probably find that it's a legend/myth in the 21st century.
Today's world, with it's inflation, population explosion, and competition for clean air, food and shelter, does not real abide by any rules 'cept the quote "gotta get paid!!".
The "Sanyaasis"(it's what the clan of babas / sadhus in India are called) who have left all worldly possesions including their loved ones behind in search of salvation who don't have this need - and by the way - they have pretty hardcore survival techniques- some of them super-human!!!
We all want what's best for our families, for their happiness and well-being!! And money (not love/fresh air) buys alot of comforts and basic neccessities to keep us all happy!!
@ cytopia.org - really sorry to hear this unfortunate incident buddies!! but is there no way that this can be curbed or avoided in future?? i'm just curious!!
Take care and Good luck to you all!!
B'om Shankara!!
"... b'om ..." |
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orange
Fat Data
Started Topics :
154
Posts :
3918
Posted : Jul 7, 2007 23:28
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as i see it shamantrixx never buys any music he downloads it he likes it for free and has arguments about it... although hes arguments are naive naive cos hes free music downloads are an object of paying hes dsl connection why doesnt he asks for free connection to the net so he can easely download hes ilegal music/software??
as i see it for him is like im paying less to get more who cares about the artist or if hes having a family to feed he wants hes music for free!!
if all where thinking like he does there would be no music to listen to and if u think about it it would be anarchy an chaos !
orange
http://www.landmark-recordings.com/
http://soundcloud.com/kymamusic |
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Pavel
Troll
Started Topics :
313
Posts :
8649
Posted : Jul 7, 2007 23:33
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On 2007-07-07 20:27, shamantrixx wrote:
Non of those make for living with their art. Mostly they ware from well founded background and belonged to some "elite" clubs or "secret" societies. Their existence did not depend on their preforming.
Again... professional artist is a paradoxical statement. It's like to say "disciplined spontaneity". This is not a matter of my point of view... it's self evident. Just because you can combine those two words in one sentence does not mean that there is any meaning in that combination.
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Your ignorance is compelling. Professional artist is a paradox? How about an amateur doctor? Grow up and stop smoking the brown acid.
Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
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549
Posted : Jul 7, 2007 23:45
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@ inner demon: everyone has a right to charge money for anything they want. What I'm talking about is an ethical foundations for charging money. For instance you can go to the forest, chop down few trees and sell them to somebody who will use it for heating during the winter. But do you have any ethical foundation to charge for the goods that nature provided?
So the question is how should we look on the person who makes stuff in order to get money and how should we look on person who makes stuff for the purpose of pure making and creating.
Further thing is that when you're making for the living it's natural to make familiar things that will easily get recognized and you'll get paid. It's totally insane to experiment with new forms and patterns when your existence depends on it.
So by living of it you prevent creativity of your work in many ways. And wherever we have established forms and rules of any kind we're dealing with uniformity. Art is by it's very nature non existential, non functional and not subject to forms and expectations. That is exactly how we separate art from things that look nice or have some other interesting factor.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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mk47
Inactive User
Started Topics :
118
Posts :
4444
Posted : Jul 7, 2007 23:56
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what cant be cured , must be endured .. also .. i think its a pretty dumb idea to have a psy label / making psy music as a career ,, its just dumb .. in todays world .. sorry
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Jul 8, 2007 00:02
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On 2007-07-07 22:04, Psynaesthesian wrote:
The "Sanyaasis"(it's what the clan of babas / sadhus in India are called) who have left all worldly possesions including their loved ones behind in search of salvation who don't have this need - and by the way - they have pretty hardcore survival techniques- some of them super-human!!!
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Interestingly enough when you meet those people and ask them about people such as you are (banking, economy etc.) they show great understanding of how it all works and also a great amount of compassion for every human trapped into that system. They don't judge people that live in the system and are always willing to help if any of those turns to them for help.
You don't understand the way they live and think, you certainly don't show any compassion towards them and you judge their behavior. On the top of all that you make "funny" remarks about "super-human" powers and that clearly shows the lack of respect. You could ask your self also would you be willing to help them if they ware in need of help or would you simply turn your head in another direction as you do it daily by being in banking related job.
I don't claim that "they" are neither holly nor perfect, but I see far more human characteristics in their behavior than in yours.
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On 2007-07-07 22:04, Psynaesthesian wrote:
And money (not love/fresh air) buys alot of comforts and basic neccessities to keep us all happy!! |
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If you think that purpose of life is to be happy all the time... boy you're in for a surprise of your life time. Emotions are tool and mistaking them for purpose is to never really live a life. That quite explains your view of "super human" powers thou. But there is no happy without sad. Trying to be happy all the time and avoid sadness is a fast way to deep depression and in longer terms serious mental problems.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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Inner Demon
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
321
Posted : Jul 8, 2007 00:52
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On 2007-07-07 23:45, shamantrixx wrote:
@ inner demon: everyone has a right to charge money for anything they want. What I'm talking about is an ethical foundations for charging money. For instance you can go to the forest, chop down few trees and sell them to somebody who will use it for heating during the winter. But do you have any ethical foundation to charge for the goods that nature provided?
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Oh man... you better not tell me you're an economics student because it never seems to be a component in your reasoning.
Do I need an ethical foundation for chopping down trees beyond the fact that I will otherwise not endure the winter/my existence depends on it? How about hunting animals? Ok so I pay someone else to do it instead...hmm..well its known as specialization and means that I don't have to build a house myself and hunt for food myself everyday.
When I specialize in something I save time for others and creates an opportunity for them to specialize in somthing different. Art would hardly exist at all if it wasn't for this development because it is difficult to focus on such things if your immediate needs aren't met. Ever heard of Maslow's pyramid..?
You're clearly saying that this entire evolution that has been a basis for art even happening is unethical?
And what's ethical anyway.. ethics is just an arbitrary social construct based on consensus, yet wildly varying between cultures. And in survival situations ethics tend to go out the window.... |
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Meta
Meta/Boomslang
Started Topics :
24
Posts :
1045
Posted : Jul 8, 2007 01:54
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Shamantrixx... please stop posting. Your posts in every thread on this board are so consistently embarrassing that I'm not entirely convinced you are a real person, just prankster taking the piss on a regular basis.
Cytopia - that sucks. As has been discussed many times, the Russian piracy sites thing is inevitable, but that's an interesting idea you had asking Google to omit them from search results. I'd be interested in any response they give you or if they have any suggestions. I noticed the same thing with my album, Russian piracy sites come right up on top before the Saikosounds & Psyshop links....
I expect people to use eMule or other p2p to share music, I accept that a certain amount of mp3 sharing is part of the promotion of the music etc, but it shouldn't be as simple as a plain http file download that you can Google for. At least the sites you saw put them up as FREE downloads, it's worse when you see a Russian pirate sites SELLING your music...
http://soundcloud.com/aeon604
http://www.metaekstasis.com/
http://the1134.com/ |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Jul 8, 2007 01:58
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On 2007-07-08 00:52, Inner Demon wrote:
Ever heard of Maslow's pyramid..? |
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Yes. It's also called compartmentalization and one of the downsides is that one compartment is completely unaware of what's going on in other compartments. Beside some obvious benefits it provides an enormous capacity for few to control the general agenda of the pyramid while each compartment believes to work for benefit of society. So out of that we get great scientists discovering great things that end up as a military weapons while significant amount of human population still struggles with basic needs like food and water. Just because it has some benefits it doesn't mean that there is no better alternative.
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On 2007-07-08 00:52, Inner Demon wrote:
You're clearly saying that this entire evolution that has been a basis for art even happening is unethical? |
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exactly. each deviation will result in some spin off. art is one such spin off from globally unethical way of living. But I'm well aware that ethics can develop only when we have the power and misuse it for a few times. It's only than we can realize that absolute power get absolutely corrupted and that having the power implies equal amount of ethics. Otherwise the power will turn it's back on us. So it's all part of the "big plan". Like we've moved out from caves to buildings and from inquisition to police now it's time to move from moral to ethics.
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On 2007-07-08 00:52, Inner Demon wrote:And what's ethical anyway.. ethics is just an arbitrary social construct based on consensus, yet wildly varying between cultures. And in survival situations ethics tend to go out the window....
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Completely wrong! Moral differs from town to town but ethics is universal as mathematics is. I suggest that you read Erich Fromm. He is one of the greatest minds ever and he was dealing with ethics in most of his books.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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