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Russian site has ripped Cytopia.org tracks
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Jul 23, 2007 21:03
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On 2007-07-23 19:24, Enertopia wrote:
Man, why don't you shut the hell up. |
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Because I have a right to express my view and I practice that right.
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On 2007-07-23 19:24, Enertopia wrote:
If Israel or Israeliens bother you so much.
Don't participate in any Israeli form. |
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Have you EVER seen a single word written by me about Israeli people? I don't think so and you never will see such thing. For me all people are just humans. I don't divide them by nationalities or skin color but I distinguish them by their deeds, actions and behavior. I'm not interested in any of your divisions and I'm certainly not interested in your personal viewpoint concerning those divisions. So please... keep it to your self!
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On 2007-07-23 19:24, Enertopia wrote:
Now, I recommend you to back up a bit, |
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... or else?
I recommend you to remember who actually brought Stalin to this debate and advice you address your complains to that person. If I annoy you I guess you can ask moderators to ban me from this forum or you'll have to get used to it. I'm also annoyed by preaching from those who have no right to preach anybody but I can live with that and so will you have to.
edit: btw my signature clearly reveals just how much prejudice I have about this particular nation but I guess you're so fed up with your own prejudices to actually notice something like that. 2 bad 4 you!  "It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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Servellen
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
42
Posted : Jul 23, 2007 21:53
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Shamantrixx - one the one hand you preach about the injustice in the world and how people abuse others via for example the financial system
But then the other hand, you use every opportuinity to insult, abuse and disrespect other people. You dont show any of the caring ideals you pretend to represent in your arguments.
You use your freedom negatively -which is exactly what you are claiming the system does. You are being a complete hypocryte and show little real interest in the content of other people's posts and are seemingly just out to insult people.
Like a vampire feeding off the anger you purposely entice from others.
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Jul 23, 2007 22:22
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You seem to know me quite well for a member who's writing his first post in this forum.
Well in a way I'm honored by your act. Going trough the trouble of registering just to judge about my influence on this forum means that influence has been made. So thank you for your attention, it means a lot to me.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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Servellen
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
42
Posted : Jul 23, 2007 22:35
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I started this thread with my cytopia account, which I want to use for impersonal posts on behalf of our website.
I opened this one so I can feel more free to express my more personal oppinions that may not represent Cytopia.
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Enertopia
Enertopia
Started Topics :
99
Posts :
676
Posted : Jul 23, 2007 22:40
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On 2007-07-23 22:22, shamantrixx wrote:
You seem to know me quite well for a member who's writing his first post in this forum.
Well in a way I'm honored by your act. Going trough the trouble of registering just to judge about my influence on this forum means that influence has been made. So thank you for your attention, it means a lot to me.
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I actually understand your point dude, you need so much attention that you will do anything for it.
You got serious issues, and you deserve them.
I hope you will never change, you know why, because people like you are like vampires indeed. Feeding off contradictions and creating conflicts.
www.myspace.com/enertopiapsy |
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Enertopia
Enertopia
Started Topics :
99
Posts :
676
Posted : Jul 23, 2007 22:40
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On 2007-07-23 21:53, Servellen wrote:
Shamantrixx - one the one hand you preach about the injustice in the world and how people abuse others via for example the financial system
But then the other hand, you use every opportuinity to insult, abuse and disrespect other people. You dont show any of the caring ideals you pretend to represent in your arguments.
You use your freedom negatively -which is exactly what you are claiming the system does. You are being a complete hypocryte and show little real interest in the content of other people's posts and are seemingly just out to insult people.
Like a vampire feeding off the anger you purposely entice from others.
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Well said.
www.myspace.com/enertopiapsy |
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Enertopia
Enertopia
Started Topics :
99
Posts :
676
Posted : Jul 23, 2007 22:44
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On 2007-07-23 21:03, shamantrixx wrote:
Quote:
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On 2007-07-23 19:24, Enertopia wrote:
Man, why don't you shut the hell up. |
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Because I have a right to express my view and I practice that right.
Quote:
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On 2007-07-23 19:24, Enertopia wrote:
If Israel or Israeliens bother you so much.
Don't participate in any Israeli form. |
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Have you EVER seen a single word written by me about Israeli people? I don't think so and you never will see such thing. For me all people are just humans. I don't divide them by nationalities or skin color but I distinguish them by their deeds, actions and behavior. I'm not interested in any of your divisions and I'm certainly not interested in your personal viewpoint concerning those divisions. So please... keep it to your self!
Quote:
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On 2007-07-23 19:24, Enertopia wrote:
Now, I recommend you to back up a bit, |
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... or else?
I recommend you to remember who actually brought Stalin to this debate and advice you address your complains to that person. If I annoy you I guess you can ask moderators to ban me from this forum or you'll have to get used to it. I'm also annoyed by preaching from those who have no right to preach anybody but I can live with that and so will you have to.
edit: btw my signature clearly reveals just how much prejudice I have about this particular nation but I guess you're so fed up with your own prejudices to actually notice something like that. 2 bad 4 you!
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Yes you did. You pointed the Israeli goverment to indicate some negative behaviours that pisses off half of the world as you said.
That goverment gave me the opportunity to have an education, to be free and be a proud human beeing in a free world defending the people who believe in peace.
Same goverment that let to provide internet service so you can log and spill out all your inteligent stupidity. www.myspace.com/enertopiapsy |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 00:55
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 01:00
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On 2007-07-23 22:44, Enertopia wrote:
Yes you did. You pointed the Israeli goverment to indicate some negative behaviours that pisses off half of the world as you said. |
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Governments and people are two different things. If you feel as a part of your government and my remark upsets you... well that's your problem. I don't mind any people and I don't support any government.
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On 2007-07-23 22:44, Enertopia wrote:
That goverment gave me the opportunity to have an education, to be free and be a proud human beeing in a free world defending the people who believe in peace. |
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Yeah. The web is full of documented efforts to bring that peace to the people so save your breath. I don't mind you believing in fairy tales but please spare me of your hypocrisy and national pride.
Your attitude is an insult to the symbol you're using below your nickname.
To quote Buddha: You will not be judged for your anger. You'll be judged by your anger.
Tnx for sharing your ideas but when we come to politics I'm on my way out. Stay well!
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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Enertopia
Enertopia
Started Topics :
99
Posts :
676
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 01:00
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Alias
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
32
Posts :
984
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 01:12
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"Clean your own mess before you advice others about their behavior and use totalitarian metaphores to describe them."
shamantrix you are hypocrit too
because you judging others in the same way!
back to the topic
why you saying that russia dont has copyright law
and law against sharing
you are wrong im from russia and we have laws against this things!
this problem not only in russia
if hollywood with all their powers and influence cant fight with illegal sharing n'stuff what we can do
nothing!
www.myspace.com/aliasix |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 10:17
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-aeon-
Aeon
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
546
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 15:43
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On 2007-07-07 20:27, shamantrixx wrote:
Non of those make for living with their art. Mostly they ware from well founded background and belonged to some "elite" clubs or "secret" societies. Their existence did not depend on their preforming. |
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that's simply not the case, imo.
many of the great composers were patronised - i.e. their expenses were subsidised by individuals or organisations on the expectation of continued production.
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| Again... professional artist is a paradoxical statement. It's like to say "disciplined spontaneity". This is not a matter of my point of view... it's self evident. Just because you can combine those two words in one sentence does not mean that there is any meaning in that combination. |
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that entirely depends on your definition of 'art', as i'm sure you're aware. as such it is absolutely a matter of your point of view... especially since historically, and currently, art is traded. and by traded i mean sold, not ripped by mp3 sites 
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| If you care about money... than you're in the wrong place. Music was for ages and ages free tool that people used to sync with other people and to harmonize their lives by dancing around the fire to the native beats. It is only in the last 70 years that musicians sold their soul and industrialized music for little fame and few $. |
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this is patently not the case.
as the legions of paid composers, performers, and productions aptly demonstrate, music has been commodified for centuries. you don't honestly think the average peasant could just rock up at the new Montiverdi gig in the 17th century and enjoy the 'free' music, do you? really?
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| People with heart should not charge money for anything! That's how we get caught in this stupid position with music in the first place. |
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do you work?
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| I don't believe that any of received an order to produce music for the world. When you order your meal in a restaurant it's perfectly reasonable to pay for it. When you request something to be done just for you than it should be paid. In contrast to that when you do it because you feel like doing it and nobody had request that you do it... well I don't see the reason and foundations for any kind of expectations.
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and thus, at a stroke, you invalidate countless millenia of human achievement.
to take two opposing examples, no-one asked Newton to write the Principa Mathematica. no-one ordered Bill Gates to start Microsoft. and i'm sure no-one asked you to work for free...?
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| ps: I do see difference between sharing music with friends and publishing other peoples music on a public web site! As I said in the first post I don't think that sites like that are ethical at all. They probably benefit from bandwidith or from adds. So in that manner such an act is even worse than expecting money for your music!!! |
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wait, so there's a distinction to be made between filesharing between friends and filesharing at large... i thought music just wanted to be freed from enslavement, like it used to be. do you think it is acceptable to share music on a internet-wide level provided there is no advertising revenue?
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| Further thing is that when you're making for the living it's natural to make familiar things that will easily get recognized and you'll get paid. It's totally insane to experiment with new forms and patterns when your existence depends on it. |
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right, which is why all David Bowie albums stay the same. or, er, not... 
seriously; you speak as if the creative/artistic impulse and the desire to market the resulting product are entirely irreconcilable concepts. this is, as far as i can see, wrong.
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| So what makes you think that people should respect your work when the whole planet seems to respect only profit? |
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it strikes me as nonsensical to abandon any sense of ethical behaviour simply because bad people exist. it also reflects a somewhat pessimistic view of humanity, imo.
if such an attitude were pursued wholeheartedly we'd all give up any sense of the social contract and revert to territorial animals.
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| Do you care about person who's making your studio equipment in some Asian factory for few cents per hour? |
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yes.
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| What goes around comes around. Ignorance is a bliss for a brief moment and than it stabs you in the back. Get used to it or do something about it. |
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i think you do most artists a great disservice.
everyone who is making and releasing music has given some away for free. whether it's downloads of old stuff, or previews, or playing unpaid gigs. i know i have & continue to give away music, and most producers i know have too.
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| And to be honest I worry more about the rich nations buying guns for more than 400 billion $ each year and than using them to prevent poor people to make money because they could buy a gun. So as long rich have both natural resources and weapons they will maintain that position and there's no way out of that unless we start to make some difference. |
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i worry more about the arms trade than i do about seeing my album on mp3 sites.
unless we've entered a bizzare world of binary exclusivity and nobody told me, iirc human beings are still capable of feeling concern about a number of issues and ranking them according to their own sense of priority.
if i read you correctly, you're suggesting that if someone stole your car, it wouldn't matter whether someone steals your computer?
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| Philosphical debates aside, this is the reality of the music business, and believe me it won't change, so quit complaining. |
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ah, the tried and true 'if you don't like it, go home' attitude.
are you suggesting that just because an unpleasant situation exists, there's suddenly no justification for seeking change?
by your logic, human beings have always traded weapons. it's just the reality of the situation. shouldn't we just give up and accept it? but wait, i thought you were concerned about the arms trade...
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| Seriously, it sucks that we don't live in the 17th century where all of these classical composers had patrons and could charge for music or performances, but the reality is that music has lost its intrinsic monetary value, after all, it can be copied ad infini without LOSS to the artist. That is the definition of copyright invringement, so please refrain from using the words THEFT or STEALING. |
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we do still live in an era when artists are patronised - our patrons are the people who buy our music, or come to gigs.
your characterisation of the industry is flawed, imho, since it suggests a terminal future state which the music 'industry' has not achieved.
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| Most of the musicians I know need to work for a living besides making music, especially if it's an underground subgenre with limited mass appeal. I will take for example what I consider to be a very professional artist in the psyscene (at least in the past): Tim Schuldt. Aside from music, he does mastering, production for other bands in all genres, works on his live band, licenses remixes etc... |
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most of the artists i know work as well. i certainly do.
does that make it more or less acceptable to take their potential profits? i'm sorry, but i don't think i understand your point...
oh, and ask any of the artists you know whether they'd prefer to be able to work solely on music. i know i would. you seem to be in favour of creative and forwards-thinking music... i'm sure that most producers would leap at the chance to be able to work on music full-time, and personally speaking i think my music would only benefit from the extra investment of time and energy, not to mention new equipment.
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| I'm sorry to say this but you artists need to wake up and realise that just because you invested ungodly amounts in your studios it does not ENTITLE you to demand anything in return, as you will always be slaves to market economics. |
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no-one feels they are ENTITLED to anything based on what they have invested in their studio.
people do feel they are entitled to receive money for products they sell. it's a crazy world, i know, but i bet the internet connection you use is paid for. and the computer you type on was bought...
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| You've obviously failed to read my post in regard to context. If artist invest some money in the studio and wants to sell his music (including complains about web distributed mp3) than his drive is obviously the profit. When people share your music on the web it is quite a musical achievement 'cause people don't share lousy music... right?
So beside music there is obviously present financial interest. Regarding cases like that I've wrote:
The name of the game is to make a largest profit for smallest amount of investment and effort. Where exactly in that sense do you see the distinction between producing coca cola and producing music? They both end up on shelves with a brand name and price attached. Or do they not?
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if they're purely profit-motivated entities, why do some artists set lower prices on sites like cytopia?
of course someone who wants to sell something is concerned with profit... it's inescapable, no?
you mentioned that most artists you know work. do you think they release music for the sake of ripping off people, enslaving the masses, enriching their shareholders? personally speaking whenever i make any money from music it goes straight back into the studio. and occasionally, if i do a big gig, i like to buy some CDs and support the music i care about.
fundamentally, people who download music just want something for free.
ethics indeed...
here's something i wrote a few years ago which sums up how i feel:
1. i love music and i love to share music.
if you know me, or bump into me at a party and ask me nicely, i will send you some music for free. this is partially because i believe music is more than money and partially because i like to share my music with people. i do not think music should ever be a strictly commercial experience.
most people spend more on weed in 2 weeks than on CDs in a year. under a tenner is not an extravagant amount - i know it's not because you're already paying double that monthly just to download stuff with your uberfast broadband and your shiny PC. you've probably got more processing power and more storage to run soulseek than i've got to make music with!
people think that artists are just being pampered prima-donna arseholes. this is genuinely, patently not the case for the majority of artists involved (well, the majority i've met), for reasons thusly:
i need to insure my (very basic) setup for well over £4,000, and that's not even counting my violin. that money didn't come from nowhere. it came from shitty jobs and going without luxuries - luxuries, for example, like buying new CDs!!! i paid for all of my equipment (with one exception - thanks to my uncle for a free soundcraft series 700B - legend!) and i'm still paying for it - insurance is extra ya know, plus of course with smaller labels i'm actually paying some of the production costs. it's taken me years to accumulate what i need to make this music...
in 20 minutes time i'm going into a fucking accountant's office to be patronised by number-crunching cretins and shuffle papers around like some glorified stationery-cupboard-growth, sitting in a non-airconditioned hellhole with massive open windows and suffering from fucking insane hayfever... just to make my music.
and you know what?
i'm over the moon. i'm happier than ever. and most importantly, any money i do make back from my album will go straight back into new studio equipment.
i'm not trying to get £16.99 from each and every HMV customer and suing thousands of p2p users. i'm not drinking champagne in flash hotel rooms and bitching about how a gold album isn't good enough and the gig isn't big enough. if i make any money i'm going to buy new toys to make new tunes to release so that (hopefully) someone somewhere enjoys them. and in fact so are most artists... in our various genres record sales are often far from explosive... plus of course other people - the record label, mastering people, graphic artists - have put a shitload of work and money into it as well.
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Enertopia
Enertopia
Started Topics :
99
Posts :
676
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 16:20
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@ktif
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
398
Posted : Jul 25, 2007 04:07
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Aeon:
I must say that your words are some of the only ones on here that make sence. Spoken with thought and compassion. Keep up the vibes; they influence everyone around you greatly =)
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