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roomtreatment help needed (photos included)
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orgytime
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 22, 2010 16:01:34
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hey guys here are 3 pics of my room from the front, righ and back.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc44/orgytime/sdfafsdadfssdfasdfa.jpg?t=1269265932
the room size is 4,5m in length and 3m the width.
i have got 4 rockwool panels wich you can see on the pics, trapping the early reflections.
the problem areas are the window, backdoor, backwall, ceiling, and the pink marked ares on the pic.
i ordered 10m2 cheap foam, beacause im out of money. i know this stuff sucks because it just kills the high freqs... anyway, where would you place this stuff (you also can see the foam on the last pic).
any advice is welcome!
cheers
  www.soundcloud.com/orgytime |
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Eleusene
Started Topics :
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117
Posted : Mar 22, 2010 16:34
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 22, 2010 16:53
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highs are very directive, to make them more usefull i would try to put them on the first relfexions that are untreated (following tweeter direction )but better you ask in acoustic forums ,aslo i think dont waste money into more foam cause when you ll have more broadband absorbers it will be proably totally useless |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 22, 2010 19:34
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orgytime
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 23, 2010 13:28
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thanks alot... right now im a little bit pissed off...
it took much effort to get knowledge, build those
absorbers etc... now you telling me its all shit haha.
better mix without my crapie roomtreatment^^
biggest problem is to learn whats the most important
thing when treating a room...
is it
- the perfect triangle?
- the perfect 1/3 mixingposition?
- the gap between speakers and wall (to the back and sides... how much space can/want i spend)?
- room size?
- speaker size?
- the speaker quality (money)?
- sub woofer?
- ear-phone?
- carpet (floor consistency)?
- speaker "decoupling" (those rubber stands...)?
- basstraps?
- first reflection points?
- absorbers (material, thickness, placing, money, space)?
- how to place knob-foam (there are different opinions --> knob-side to the wall, not pointing inside the room)?
what is the best compromise? . . .
its all a big huge fuck rofl;;
just wanted you to have an idea
what my thoughts are^^
thanks for the name ascension, i will go for it when i got time, this would be a great solution!
cheers
www.soundcloud.com/orgytime |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 23, 2010 15:33
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
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1055
Posted : Mar 23, 2010 15:35
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Quote:
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On 2010-03-23 13:28, orgytime wrote:
thanks alot... right now im a little bit pissed off...
it took much effort to get knowledge, build those
absorbers etc... now you telling me its all shit haha.
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First of all does it sound better than before, if it does than congrats  One more thing you can think of is the wall mounted absorbers, try to get some room between the absorber and wall ( small gap of air), that will improve the sound absorbing capabilities =)
Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
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orgytime
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 24, 2010 10:42
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@Ascension
you are talking about this "decoupling" i
mentioned above... i only got this little
pads http://www.thomann.de/de/yamaha_hs50m_stativ_set.htm
you tried without the pads too? do you HEAR a differnce? be honest LOL
and ive choosen the hs50m´s ... the are really
enough for a 3m x 4,5m room... (someone told me so)
im not mixing at very high volume... but i thought of
buying a subwoofer, to make better bass... well but
then i would need basstraps, otherwise it just would
mess my sound up? (someone told me so)
@ vegetal
lol nice one^^ how much space?
i only got 40cm from monitor to wall. making a
extra space would reduce this already small amount,
should i care?
im not sure about the sound improvement...
you hear, what you want to hear you know,
thats also a fucking issue. i also bought a
thin ($) carpet... but again... i dont know
if the accoustics have improved.
when i line up the cheap foam at the side
and back walls, i think (!) i hear a
difference, but i dont know if its good or
bad LOOOOL. i always try the "clap" test...
i clap my hands and listen to the reverb in
the room.
i got no ears for bass, im just hearing
louder bass in the corners, but i dont care
as long as my mixing pos is not in the corner^^
would it be smarter to leave the room
untreatet and spend 2000€ for a good pair
of speakers? LOL
sobbingly cheers ^^;
www.soundcloud.com/orgytime |
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gutter
Inactive User
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Posted : Mar 24, 2010 11:19
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Room is small, so this by itself is a big problem
Then you sleep in there, meaning you cannot overdo much with treatment
Acoustic foam is meaningless and a waste of money, some expensive stuff may be appropriate, like primacoustics panels, but are too expensive, better stick with homemade panels
Then again you can treat as better as you can the front side of your room
You can buy rockwool and cut it to triangles and fill the corners from bottom to top, with a high density rockwool like 100kg, to make the best possible low frequency absorption there, then you can make a couple of thicker panels and place them horizontal sidelong on the front ceiling and wall above the window, with the panel aiming at the mix position
Of course would be better to make the same corner traps for the backside of the room, but then again there is the bed and the shelves
You can place thinner panels like the ones you have there at the back walls beside the door for these reflections too
The thing is that you can/probably should fill every ceiling corner in your room since the room is too small
Do not buy Auralex
Ive spend 500 euros, just to take them off my walls before a month, plus some big homemade rockwool panels i had made because the atmosphere was not the best in there
Though if you make a decent treatment for the front side, you will have a more tight and focused sound @ your mix position
ps i like the fabric on your panels, looks trendy
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orgytime
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 24, 2010 11:40
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hehe, yeah the fabric of the 2 panels on the front wall
are self made... called "patik art" or something...
like those socks^^ http://batikart.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/batik_socken_500x366.jpg
but it seems like the work was for nothing, becauce
the penals are to thin.
panel over my bed? i dont know if i want to sleep
under a rockwool panel^^ i heard its not so healthy.
so in other words you would focus at the front 1/2 of the room.
- building those triangle basstraps in the corners from floor to ceiling
- building new thicker rockwool panels for the side and front (only first reflection zone)
- using the old panels for the back walls
and whats about the ceiling itselfe? also 1 thick
rockwool panel to absorb the 1st reflection?
cheers
www.soundcloud.com/orgytime |
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gutter
Inactive User
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3018
Posted : Mar 24, 2010 11:57
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 24, 2010 14:06
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yes ceiling too ,how much is 1 tick? you need at least 10 centimeters for all early reflections with air gap behind(i m not sure but i think 10 cm absorbers + 5 cm air gap perform better than 15 cm absorbers close to the wall),and basstraps on the 4 corners , with all that you will see nice improvment (right now i think you haven t hear any improvments ,while waiting for your new absorbers put the one you have for early reflections ,not behind the speakers !they could be more usefull at a other place..they are not big enought to do anything in the low end ) |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 24, 2010 14:43
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Oh they're the 50s, still good ones.
I've tried with and without and yes there is a difference. My monitor "stands" are stacks of cinder blocks, but I've heard it makes more of a difference with metal stands.
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 24, 2010 14:46
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your monitors at 40 cm from each walls is maybe not a good idea , you could maybe hear more improvments with just moving your speakers than lot of room treatments, do you have a mic to make measurments? here a free soft http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/ in my room just moving the monitors 5 cms give me a 10 db peak in the low end.
and about decoupling it can be useless i think it depends the monitors and on what surface they are, if you can ask someone to carry one speaker in his hands you will hear if you need it (listen to the low medium, low end...it s very noticeable in my experience when you need something for it) |
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Trip-
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
101
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3239
Posted : Mar 25, 2010 02:15
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Treatment is a tricky issue, and I won't usually reply on these subjects. But this time I'll make an exception
After doing all my research, and yes it is a long learning process, you basically end up with knowing less than what you discover...
Your room is very friendly for treatment.
I would not advice sleeping in the studio, but only if you must.
Small rooms are always more prone to low resonating freqs. It is important to remember that between very dry room and untreated room, there's an area you'd like your room to be at.
It is good you used rockwool, though you didn't give any details about the density. Leaving an air gap behind those panels you have, could help you lower the effected frequency as absorption coefficients change when introducing an air gap.
For what you have now, you probably improved your overall stereo imaging. I would move the speakers closer to each other - and maybe move the whole setup a bit more into the room. It's not really a rule, but some advice u'd sit at 2/5 position from the front wall of your room.
You can calm your low mids by eliminating the corners of your room, stuffing it with rockwool triangles. My advice would be to get lower density rockwool, 60kg, as this is more effective on lower freqs when you're using alot of rockwool - unlike using higher densities. This is actually cheaper too.
Treating the mid freqs, I'd use high density fiberglass - which at 36kg is considered very high - not cheap either. These would be thick panels you put on your walls just as you did, across the long walls. Position is critical, as certain freqs ring at differernt places of your room across the wall.
Killing low frequencies in a small room is a challenge - basically calming them down would be introducing amounts of absorbing material, usually in places where walls meet.
Taking measurments with special mics is science and you'd really want to know what you're doing with that. Sometimes what we see on the graph is not read properly... Only if you want to dive into the subject of course.
Keep in mind that acoustic treatment of a small room is still a subject that is being learned, and new issues are being revealed still today.
cheers.
Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
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