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RMS and Mastering!!!
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Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
1772
Posted : Feb 5, 2009 07:25
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I'm mastering some non-electronic stuff for this guy, and he insists on having all of the tracks at like -8dB RMS..not that he has any idea what RMS means, but every time I send him an example he says it isn't as loud as the stuff he listens to.
I've explained how it will sound terrible after the first thirty seconds and totally kill any dynamic that the mix had and he doesn't care.
Do I try to throw more logic at this situation or do it anyway since he's paying?
My ears are bleeding.
  You believe in the users?
Yeah, sure. If I don't have a user, then who wrote me? |
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insaneacyde
Insaneacyde
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
20
Posted : Feb 5, 2009 10:57
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On 2009-02-03 20:55, ~d2~ wrote:
I started with vinyl, which is limited to the amount of compression.....I'll have to go through some records and see what there peak to RMS are.
But say you go for -14dB RMS for the mix and peak at -3dBfs (good to keep that cushion and some headroom for mastering). Then in mastering even with out compression you will be able to raise upto -11dB RMS.
This is why I think -14dB RMS for mixing . I work at a set monitor level. Make sure you don't peak over -3dBfs on the master bus, or any tracks for that matter. You got some room for some EQ boost in mastering if you need it.
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thanx bro i needed that info about peak levels before maximising, is there a reason behind it?
i usually lift my track to as loud as it can go before maximising so that the plug doesnt have to work to hard, is this wrong? |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Feb 5, 2009 12:36
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Quote:
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On 2009-02-03 20:55, ~d2~ wrote:
But say you go for -14dB RMS for the mix and peak at -3dBfs (good to keep that cushion and some headroom for mastering). Then in mastering even with out compression you will be able to raise upto -11dB RMS.
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The increase of peak level, will not correspond in the same dBs of RMS level though, will it?
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On 2009-02-05 10:57, insaneacyde wrote:
i usually lift my track to as loud as it can go before maximising so that the plug doesnt have to work to hard, is this wrong?
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Its not wrong, but this has prevailed as good practise when people used analog gear (or digital) outdoard gear that had some sort of input gain, used to bring the incoming signal to a good working level. Increasing the gain of an amplifier, involved adding noise to the signal (even if that noise was insignificant...for high end gear).
Plug-ins don't suffer from this, but then again people still use outboard gear to master tunes.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
576
Posted : Feb 5, 2009 13:58
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Quote:
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On 2009-02-05 07:25, Kane wrote:
Do I try to throw more logic at this situation or do it anyway since he's paying?
My ears are bleeding.
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Pump it up, who cares, if he really wants it let him have it, blast him with -7 dBs, pick the money and take few days off too cool off your ears.. Just dont ever do such thing to your music..
http://www.facebook.com/xrayzproductions
http://www.myspace.com/xrayzproductions |
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~d2~
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
751
Posted : Feb 5, 2009 19:20
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On 2009-02-05 12:36, pipe&slippers wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-02-03 20:55, ~d2~ wrote:
But say you go for -14dB RMS for the mix and peak at -3dBfs (good to keep that cushion and some headroom for mastering). Then in mastering even with out compression you will be able to raise upto -11dB RMS.
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The increase of peak level, will not correspond in the same dBs of RMS level though, will it?
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If all you did was raise the gain then the RMS level would move up with the peak. a 3dB increase would bring up both the peak and RMS by 3dB. The crest factor would stay the same. |
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piko_bianko
Oxya
Started Topics :
57
Posts :
974
Posted : Feb 5, 2009 20:30
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d2 is right 
in quite more simple math:
suppose we have 5 time points to calculate rms in a sample.
if this sample had -3, -24, -20, -5, -8db peaks at those 5 points, we have like -12db rms,
if we add 3db in the whole sample, the same values will go up to 0, -21, -17, -2, -5db which results -9db rms
whole rms calculation goes like this.
extreme |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Feb 6, 2009 04:11
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~d2~
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
751
Posted : Feb 6, 2009 04:35
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On 2009-02-06 04:11, Elad wrote:
so what u asking is 0 compression
im not sure there is any mastering house that eliminate compressors and limiters all together 
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lol...no explaining crest factor, it was an example to show that RMS on its own is not an indication of perceived loudness.
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piko_bianko
Oxya
Started Topics :
57
Posts :
974
Posted : Feb 6, 2009 06:20
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Quote:
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On 2009-02-06 04:11, Elad wrote:
so what u asking is 0 compression
im not sure there is any mastering house that eliminate compressors and limiters all together
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exactly as d2 said..
i talking about adding gain after any limiter/compressor
extreme |
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~d2~
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
751
Posted : Feb 6, 2009 06:37
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On 2009-02-05 07:25, Kane wrote:
I'm mastering some non-electronic stuff for this guy, and he insists on having all of the tracks at like -8dB RMS..not that he has any idea what RMS means, but every time I send him an example he says it isn't as loud as the stuff he listens to.
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Just an idea. Get him to send you a copy of the track he is comparing it to. Then do a DJ mix of the 2 tracks where the levels have been matched on the mixers VU meters (and by ear) and send that to him. |
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Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
1772
Posted : Feb 6, 2009 08:01
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That's exactly what I did.
You believe in the users?
Yeah, sure. If I don't have a user, then who wrote me? |
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~d2~
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
751
Posted : Feb 6, 2009 08:08
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What did he say? |
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Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
1772
Posted : Feb 6, 2009 23:07
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I tried some different compressors and limiters and found a combination that doesn't sound as harsh as what I was using before, matched the loudness of the reference track and he was happy with it.
You believe in the users?
Yeah, sure. If I don't have a user, then who wrote me? |
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~d2~
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
751
Posted : Feb 6, 2009 23:18
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cool
What was the magical combination or is it a trade secret? |
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Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
1772
Posted : Feb 7, 2009 00:12
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Logic's Compressor (on ClassA_R circuit)
Sonalksis MultiLimit (some light settings just to tighten the bass a bit)
Ozone 3 (transient catcher, brickwall with fast release and threshold at 0)
You believe in the users?
Yeah, sure. If I don't have a user, then who wrote me? |
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