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recording vstis instead of bouncing in cubase
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konflux
Konflux
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
811
Posted : Jul 1, 2006 11:50
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i was told that the recording vsti midi tracks into separate audiotrack "live" was a better
way to have your midi sequence in audio.
in order to do that one supposedly needs to
connect the input of the audio interface to its output, which i have tried using an spdi/f cable.
however, the desirable result hasn't been achieved. i just could not figure out how to
configure cubase to make it be able to record audio like this.
i use m-audio audiophile.
i appreciate any help on this issue.
  myspace.com/konfluxpsy | www.konfluxmusic.net | PsyTribe | Phar Psyde Recs. | Logical Light Recs.
For CD releases:
http://www.saikosounds.com/english/search.asp?search_str=konflux |
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Meta
Meta/Boomslang
Started Topics :
24
Posts :
1045
Posted : Jul 1, 2006 11:55
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Uh... what was the benefit of that supposed to be?
If you used spdif, you're doing it digitally anyway, so there'd be no difference. If you used analog ins and outs... well... you'd be losing quality.
So... was there any explanation of the benefits? I can see someone recommending bouncing your stuff through hardware compressors or whatnot that has some kind of tube warming or something, but you wouldn't get that effect doing loopback through an audio interface.
http://soundcloud.com/aeon604
http://www.metaekstasis.com/
http://the1134.com/ |
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sideFXed
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
430
Posted : Jul 1, 2006 15:10
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I record my vst's all the time, but inside the digital domain. I prefer to use silverspike tapeit 2 instead of bouncing or freezing. try it, there's a demo and a free version of tapeit 1.
soundcloud.com/epsylohm |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Jul 3, 2006 19:53
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orange
Fat Data
Started Topics :
154
Posts :
3918
Posted : Jul 3, 2006 20:37
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l337
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
817
Posted : Jul 3, 2006 21:28
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yeah bouncing with VSTi's for sure,...
only possible reason why i could possibly fathom recording them would be if you have set up a controller to tweak some parameteres and you like to do live tweaking...i.e while the track is recording,...
otherwise , bounce bounce bounce, and bounce some more....
i love how psy production comes up with all these urban legends for better making of music...some of them are just bizzare...like this one....
probably these ideas are fathomed while dudes are smoking a blunt or two....probably becomes very logical if you are stoned  |
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sideFXed
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
430
Posted : Jul 3, 2006 22:22
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why, because I can do multitrack bounce to several different files... another thing is to catch accidents, things hard to reproduce with notation, automation.
I can also decide if I want to bounce dry or wet signals. insert as many instances whereever I want.
freeze will make parts unmoveable
bouncing every single part after another bores me.
soundcloud.com/epsylohm |
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WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
Started Topics :
136
Posts :
1214
Posted : Jul 4, 2006 09:50
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i think its the same ... and infact recording off inputs and outputs , can soemtimes be troublesome ... offcourse , firstly u need to use Digital converters in the first place .. |
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shachar
Basic
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
402
Posted : Jul 4, 2006 12:08
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Its is better to record instead of using the cubase export. I do it with pulsar soundcard & the scope fusion platform.
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Meta
Meta/Boomslang
Started Topics :
24
Posts :
1045
Posted : Jul 4, 2006 12:18
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Quote:
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On 2006-07-04 12:08, shachar wrote:
Its is better to record instead of using the cubase export. I do it with pulsar soundcard & the scope fusion platform.
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But... why? Is there some warming effect the Pulsar adds or something?
People keep saying it's better without giving any evidence or reasoning. I'm not saying I don't believe you guys, but I need to know a specific thing to listen for to know it's worth the extra trouble.
http://soundcloud.com/aeon604
http://www.metaekstasis.com/
http://the1134.com/ |
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br0d
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
355
Posted : Jul 4, 2006 14:10
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I have now heard everything. 
I *am* saying, I don't believe you guys.
Because you are giving out wrong information.
Aeon covered it in his first post.
But to elaborate.
SX processes at 32 bit internally, it is capable of exporting at 32 bit also. When you record out and back in through a sound card, you are undergoing an unnecessary AD/DA conversion, down to probably 20 bits, or 24 bit, if you are lucky. You are basically throwing away data.
Not only that, but a digital loopback is identical at the inputs and outputs. There is absolutely no difference, by definition and by design. If there WAS a difference, digital wouldn't be worth a shit.
If you are recording out to get "analog warmth" or something, where is the warmth coming from? The signal goes through a 20 bit DA converter on the way out the sound card, through a (hopefully balanced) cable, arrives at the input summed by this cable (essentially the same) and then is put through a 20 bit AD conversion. 12 bits worth of data which would normally be retained by the app, is simply truncated by your sound card. If you think this truncation improves music, it's time to share the drugs.  |
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l337
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
817
Posted : Jul 4, 2006 17:39
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yeah i agree with Brod, these notion of recording the VSTi's is rubbish....
the only way it would be beneficial was if you recorded them out onto some outboard gear to add whatever you want to add then record them back in.... |
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sideFXed
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
430
Posted : Jul 4, 2006 18:42
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just for your information: my solution is merely a workflow solution.
the output is 32 bit float, the files are timestamped and actually nothing different as a bounced file. For one sequence it sure takes longer (realtime) but as soon as you multitrackbounce, you gonna love a sophisticated recorder tool.
If there's no analog equipment that colors the sound, there's no reason to go through a digital analog conversion.
soundcloud.com/epsylohm |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Jul 4, 2006 23:32
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Jul 5, 2006 12:30
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This topic was popular on another production site as well so few of us decided to make some serious tests with cubase export (bounce) and recording via scope (creamware), RME and E-mu soundcards.
If you bounce a single track there is no difference. We didn't expect it to be present in a single track recording. The debate was about the cubase/nuendo digital summing and the possible benefits of recording mixdown via DSP mixers like the STM1632 on scope platform. So we made a mixdown file with 5 tracks and mix it down in 3 ways:
1) ordinary cubase mixdown to a single stereo file
2) 5 bus from cubase to 5 scope DSP mixer recorded with Wavelab in realtime
3) 5 track playback from cubase recorded with Wavelab in realtime
Recorded files have been compared with Wavelab statistics tool. THE ONLY difference was the fact that files recorded trough DSP mixer had some 2 msec. latency compared to a file recorded directly from Cubase. The creamware claims that there is no latency within the mixer but that is NOT true. Sum of chanels was exactly the same in all 3 mixdowns down to the last bit and Hz!
Manual recording is simply the waist of time unless you have an analog mixer and record an analog sum of your tracks. That makes a huge difference because of rounding errors that are present in digital suming.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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