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Question about very low bassline
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kotton
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
105
Posted : Sep 12, 2010 23:39:24
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The thing is I really like low basslines. Im writing a track in F minor and for the bass I used synth. It consists of a two saw oscs (one is one ocatve lower), two lp filters each with its own envelope. So I have one osc playing the F1 note (43.65Hz) and the other is one octave below, so 21.83Hz. I EQed the whole bassline track with HP filter some where in the range of fundamental frequency which is F1, 43.65. The slope of the HP filter isnt that steep and I have quite decent monitors so I can hear for sure that discreet low end coming from second sub osc.
So Im happy with the bassline, it sounds really low but I want that. I synthesized a kick from sinewave at 43.65 hz and I think they go well together.
So my question is is my bassline too low to be heard without a problem on a big sound system. I mean Im not there yet and I wont be for at least few years. Of course I will send the track once finished to mastering and there they will deal with extreme frequencies I cant hear. I just want to know now if my bassline is to low to be heard normally. Ive read something about bass being too low and that can cause big problem on big sound systems (needing huge amount of energy to output such low frequencies). Should I move everything up one octave to avoid any problems?
Should I stop using such low basslines in my music?
This is strictly technical and not aesthetical question.
thank you very much!
best,
.t |
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minddoctorsmakeacid
IsraTrance Full Member
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577
Posted : Sep 13, 2010 01:31
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You get away in most PA systems with good SubBass speakers.
But have in mind that your bass will not be heard for most people at home or work, maybe in cars with subwoofer or at home music studios with good monitors but anywere else your bass will not b heard.
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Sep 13, 2010 01:36
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To produce basslines I like is my big weakness so far,Imma passionate learner  but I can say that those low frequencies you mentioned,you can not really hear.
All below 40 Herz is only a big energy resultng in vibrations that is what you rather perceive than any tone as far as I know.It is good for cinema effects but for a bassline should not be what you're looking for,I think.
I think you're going too low,and 2 oscs are one too much - as Cosmosis once has written somewhere here. ...for a phat bass.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
so basicaly you would only feel these very low frequencies.It should be impossible (as a bassline that is as perceivable as a kick) if your ears want to survive on a big system.
 https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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kotton
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
105
Posted : Sep 13, 2010 02:06
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Thanks for replies!
I have two oscillators in my synth patch (43.65hz, 21.83) and if tweak either one of them there is a very very big difrence in the bass sound. I dont know really which frequencys I hear and which I dont but the fact is that it makes a big difference in bass sound. I dont wanna get that cinema bass in my bassline that would be impossible to listen, its just about certain character of the bass sound and not about extra low ultra evil ground shaking mind fuckin trance bassline And yes, I know I cant hear those frequencies but I do hear drastic changes while tweaking any of the osc and I can adjust lows very good with that subosc I cant really hear. Am I dellusional?
Ok I guess I dont understand somehing very important. So Ive made an experiment. Just one saw osc and LP filter, played at F0 (21.83hz)
I can clearly hear the low note and I really mean hear not feel and this was on cheap sony stereo. I can also shape the bass sound very nicely with filter and filter envelope. So what have I missed? please help!!
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knocz
Moderator
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1151
Posted : Sep 13, 2010 03:50
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I say try it out! Render the track, find a friend with a good system, go to a store and ask to listen to it, and check if it sounds good! For me that's all that matters: if you like it.
You can also post the sound here to get some feedback from the Israworld 
Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Sep 13, 2010 04:26
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ok , in small rooms we'd hear sth and feel even less,on big areas with an enormous amount of watt our eardrums could explode if it is a bassline of sth like 20 hz .
It is only energy.
There are cases where this has happened.To the first rows at the same time.Not with normal boxes.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
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1397
Posted : Sep 13, 2010 10:49
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well i'm surprised you hear it
just a little hint try not too eq the bass...
i suggest you use a sine wave on that freq and put a nice sounding baseline on top of it.
only low sub frequencies will sound dull and empty.try all the ranges one two sounds every range fading in and out...i miss good old modulation
http://soundcloud.com/magimix-1/chilling-forest-whispers
Wierd shit happens :) |
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kotton
Started Topics :
4
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105
Posted : Sep 13, 2010 10:50
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thanks again ppl.
I guess I should stay away than from such low frequencies then.
So what, where are the lower trance basslines usually made. Is it in from c1 notes to c3. Or even higher?
I like comosis bassline technique presented in tutorial and his kontakt patches are great also but I dont want that and I find using two oscilators for bassline quite interesting because I can really shape and adjust the sound and character of the bass.
best,
.t |
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wizanda
IsraTrance Junior Member
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24
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283
Posted : Sep 13, 2010 11:03
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It might work on some systems, yet on others you will cause distortion or even worse, blow the speakers when they try to produce it. Mastering cuts below 20hz, so it plays on all systems. 
www.wizanda.com www.soundcloud.com/wizanda |
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kotton
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
105
Posted : Sep 13, 2010 11:04
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Quote:
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On 2010-09-13 10:49, daark wrote:
well i'm surprised you hear it
just a little hint try not too eq the bass...
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What do you mean with that? Not to over eq the bass or not to eq at all?? |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Sep 13, 2010 11:26
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Quote:
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On 2010-09-12 23:39:24, kotton wrote:
The slope of the HP filter isnt that steep and I have quite decent monitors so I can hear for sure that discreet low end coming from second sub osc.
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What speakers are you mixing on?
Are you sure the sub osc is not too loud in the mix?
20something Hz is a grequency that you mainly feel, not actually hear. Its that feeling of the chaning air pressure in the air's particals, more than getting a really low tone.
Now, you need to bare in mind that if you haven't mixed in the sub osc low enough, you are using up all your headroom to have a big pulsating invisible wave, putting pressure on the dancefloor. Not bad, it works fine in legato drum n bass basslines, but then tempo becomes a factor (the faster the BPM the harder to lay out a proper sounding 1/16th bass note.
Don't count on most P.A systems to reproduce 20something Hz, if its not something special, the FOH engineer is most likely to high pass his rig at 30something Hz to make sure things are safe.
So will most mastering engineers, they will high pass stuff that is so low, you need to have a chat with them to make sure they don't.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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kotton
Started Topics :
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105
Posted : Sep 13, 2010 11:43
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I have dynaudio Bm5a monitors and some shitty sony stereo, to double check things...
Yes Ive mixed the subs very quietly. Also I have quite slow tempo (137bpm) so It kinnda bounces with the kick.
But you have all presented quite a few reasons not to use sooo low freqs. I will leave that to professionals (add subs in mastering stage if Ill feel I need one) and for now I will concentrate on more conventional basslines. So please, in which freq range are low trance basslines?
If I build a bassline on F1, is that still too low?. Should I use F2 note by default if I write in F key?
Is it okey to use a subosc (1 octave lower) in my bass patches?
So I should avoid bass sounds in the range below 30hz? Or is it 40 hz?
Thanks!!
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
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5292
Posted : Sep 13, 2010 11:56
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the BM5As will not faithfully reproduce 22hz mate, it might seem to you that they do, but my guess is that what you feel as extra sub, is the next harmonic of the sub oscillator, playing on top of the fundamental frequency of the high 8ve oscillator.
If you can hear the effect of 22Hz on the BM5As, you've definintely mixed in then sub oscillator too high. On a big system that will overpower anything else in your mix.
And another thing, the mastering engineer cannot add what is not there, so don't count on them to add subs...and using a sub-harmonic plug in on a stereo file (meaning the kick as well, besides the bass) is very tricky business.
F1 is fine, the lowest I am going in tunes is C1 (32.7Hz).
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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kotton
Started Topics :
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Posts :
105
Posted : Sep 13, 2010 12:02
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Great I feel kinnda relieved now. So I dont hear something I cannot hear at all
Cheers for the answers, theyve been really helpful! |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
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Posted : Sep 13, 2010 12:03
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Quote:
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On 2010-09-13 11:56, disco hooligans wrote:
F1 is fine, the lowest I am going in tunes is C1 (32.7Hz).
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Heavy :cool:
I was asking myself how deep is your bass,since Im listening to that great dj set from that radio.This is so hardcore and works fantastic in your tunes.
The deepest bass I know in psytrance.Rocks!
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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