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Question about Mastering ... How hot can the mix level be
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Fuzulu
Fuzulu
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1096
Posted : Jul 29, 2011 02:10:39
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ok so lets say ... i have a track mixed in my daw ... levels r pretty hot ... but nothing is clipping ... the signals almost always really close to clipping but no clips ... and i like the way the mix is sounding ... nothing distorted etc
can i send this mix to the mastering engineer ? or no it has to be exactly -3db or -4db ? Can't the mastering engineer compensate for that with their input gain etc ?
  http://www.soundcloud.com/fuzulu
http://fuzulu.bandcamp.com
BooM!!!! |
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vipal
IsraTrance Full Member
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123
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1397
Posted : Jul 29, 2011 02:18
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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95
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5380
Posted : Jul 29, 2011 03:00
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Fuzulu
Fuzulu
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58
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1096
Posted : Jul 29, 2011 03:12
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Upavas
Upavas
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150
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3315
Posted : Jul 29, 2011 03:57
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
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75
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1848
Posted : Jul 29, 2011 09:05
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Personally, I like to leave some headroom when I mix down. I guess the best way to describe it is doing aerobic exercises in a cramped hallway vs. a vaulted ceiling. The latter is more comfortable for me. Although Colin certainly is correct, technically.
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orgytime
IsraTrance Full Member
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120
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Posted : Jul 29, 2011 10:38
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mixing with more headroom is more pleasing for me too.
it feels like you have more controll over each elements volume. you dont try to max out all volumes to the same level.
www.soundcloud.com/orgytime |
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elastic_plastic
Re-Boot
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112
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1612
Posted : Jul 29, 2011 11:08
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this is very subjective and depends on the mastering engineer. you need to check with him b4 u can send him the mix. |
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monno
Grapes Of Wrath
Started Topics :
9
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454
Posted : Jul 29, 2011 12:57
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If it is a production that never left the confines of the computer ie fully digital then there is no need to keep levels hot at all. That is somewhat of a remnant from the days of analog recording and signal to noise ratio.
I would say that keeping a good 3-6 db away from the ceiling is always advisable due to software meters not always displaying things correctly (itīs like this in many DAWīs) Always allow for a little wiggle room to be sure  Digital gain is near transparent in this day and age, so it really is no issue at all if the engineer has to tweak it up or down.
Mastering available here:
http://www.bimmelim-soundlabs.com
http://soundcloud.com/onkeldunkel
http://www.myspace.com/onkeldunkelownz
http://www.parvati-records.com |
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minus
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jul 29, 2011 19:31
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Quote:
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On 2011-07-29 03:00, Colin OOOD wrote:
Some engineers like to have a certain amount of headroom; personally I'm happy accepting files right up to 0dBFS, as long as they don't clip. Don't forget, if the engineer wants it quieter, all you have to do is turn down the master fader. You won't change the mix at all, only its loudness.
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how i do it is, i leave the master fader at its normal position, and reduce on individual channels,, i somehow feel the mix becomes much cleaner,, is that wrong? it sounds way easy to just pull down the master and send it for mastering, saying here's headroom, i thought u had to make headroom,by tweeking those sliders up down and finding enough room there?
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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95
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5380
Posted : Jul 29, 2011 20:40
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Quote:
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On 2011-07-29 19:31, minus wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-07-29 03:00, Colin OOOD wrote:
Some engineers like to have a certain amount of headroom; personally I'm happy accepting files right up to 0dBFS, as long as they don't clip. Don't forget, if the engineer wants it quieter, all you have to do is turn down the master fader. You won't change the mix at all, only its loudness.
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how i do it is, i leave the master fader at its normal position, and reduce on individual channels,, i somehow feel the mix becomes much cleaner,, is that wrong? it sounds way easy to just pull down the master and send it for mastering, saying here's headroom, i thought u had to make headroom,by tweeking those sliders up down and finding enough room there?
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Your feeling that the mix becomes cleaner is a placebo - it's in your mind, not in the sound. With a modern DAW working at 32-bit floating point (ie. all of them these days) There is absolutely no difference in sound between reducing the levels of all individual channel faders, and between taking the master fader down. Even if the individual channels go over 0dBFS, the internal mix engine will not clip because 32-bit float has over 1500dB of headroom ABOVE 0dBFS; the only time you need to be careful of clipping is on the master fader as this is where the audio is converted to a fixed-point format, which has no headroom over 0dBFS.
Of course, there are other reasons why you might want to pull all your individual audio channels faders down, but sound quality per se is not one of them 
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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minus
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jul 30, 2011 12:34
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i see, actually the placebo was based on the results that i got from different mastering doods,while i sent them different mixes, 1 with master channel down (sloth work) and 1 with all individual channels down, got very different results from them,, but maybe the results were just their mastering setup
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monno
Grapes Of Wrath
Started Topics :
9
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454
Posted : Jul 30, 2011 14:13
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While itīs true that 32bit float provides ample headroom the same does not apply to converters which do 24bit integers (fixed point) and not float. Like it or not, at some point the data must pass through converters in order for us to listen to our creations.
Depending on how well the analog part of the DAC has been designed it is actually much more likely that the effective resolution is lower than 24bits.
The question then beckons as to how this math is being treated and since thatīs mostly either a mystery or a secret as far as most DAWS are concerned i will repeat that it is better to stay below the ceiling with a comfortable margin on the master fader. It takes seriously low levels before it has an effect on even the least significant byte in a 24bit word, so resolution wonīt suffer.
A louder recording does not mean a better one.
Most of the time we are simply being tricked by ourselves to think that louder is better.
In the end itīs really not that important. I am sure that any decent engineer would point it out to you if clipping occurred and if it would negatively affect the signal. (if the engineer knows his shit that is)
Make track, bounce to disk, send to people, job done. Itīs easy to get sucked into the peculiarities of digital audio, but most important is to make music that sounds good and pleasant. (can be fully achieved without thinking about headroom too much)
I am sure the differing results you had from "mastering doods" had more to do with their workflow or lack of same, than to do with your mixdown
Mastering available here:
http://www.bimmelim-soundlabs.com
http://soundcloud.com/onkeldunkel
http://www.myspace.com/onkeldunkelownz
http://www.parvati-records.com |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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162
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8087
Posted : Jul 30, 2011 16:24
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even in 32 bit float there is lot of headroom some plugins clip and some sound noticeably worst with hot signal.
the only advantage i can see with working very hot it s that it can help get the dynamic and balance right for today flat as a pancacke mix lol cause you have no other choice or it clip. |
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minus
IsraTrance Full Member
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103
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Posted : Jul 31, 2011 02:30
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Make track, bounce to disk, send to people, job done. Itīs easy to get sucked into the peculiarities of digital audio, but most important is to make music that sounds good and pleasant. (can be fully achieved without thinking about headroom too much)
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word !
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