| Author
|
Quality
|
*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Sep 12, 2010 19:54
|
Quote:
|
On 2010-09-12 12:48, disco hooligans wrote:
I think that if there is such a thing, it plagues mostly (some) of the people who rely on making trance tunes to pay the rent.
Having a day job gives me a more relaxing way of writting/producing and it means I can take my time trying out new things, and just write music without caring about the current trends adn formulas in order to get enough gigs/sell tunes to pay the bills.
Now a lot of the big names, don;t lack quality engineering wise. They know their stuff and just bang mix after mix out and they all sound great. Its the writting part where they start to lose it... too much of the same tried and tested sounds and arrangements, and as does engineering, the writting part affects quality, in my ears at least...but the writting part is subjective, so overall, what is a good quality tune, varies from person to person.
|
|
This is my point exactly.
For me the writing is as much a part of quality as the engineering part.
If it takes these skillful "full time" artists a day or 2 to complete an acceptable 'industry standard' song. and thats now good enough.
nothing extraordinary gets released..
here and there you find artists that don't worry about time and ,maybe, the money,
and creates something that does not sound like it just came of the production line of the big psy-factory.
|
|
|
*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Sep 12, 2010 20:08
|
Quote:
|
On 2010-09-12 14:55, Maine Coon wrote:
Then, of course, there are smart PIs, who publish little articles in so-so journals as they go, making their way up in the academic food chain, while diligently working on that killargh story for “Science” or “Nature Medicine”. Those are usually the ones who get tenured by the age of 40, have half a floor for their lab by the age of 50 and play golf with NIH Directors by the age of 60.
|
|
i understand your argument and while i'm thinking about it, i want to just make something clear. offtopic
i'd much rather play golf with humble getto people whom is able to laugh at themselfs when they drive a ball right in to the trees,
than feeling all holy playing with NIH directors. (i dont know who they are but they probably think themselves VIP)
|
|
|
|
Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Sep 12, 2010 22:21
|
Quote:
|
On 2010-09-12 20:08, *eLliSDee* wrote:
i'd much rather play golf with humble getto people whom is able to laugh at themselfs when they drive a ball right in to the trees,
than feeling all holy playing with NIH directors. (i dont know who they are but they probably think themselves VIP)
|
|
Oh, I am 100% with you on this one!
In fact, I’d rather not play golf at all. 
It’s nice to be able to ditch a country club, a hunting lodge or a Bentley dealership as a conscious choice – I applaud anybody who is enlightened enough to do that. It’s not much of a choice, however, when you simply have no access to those options, right?
Likewise, when you have a handful of good albums, countless good VA contributions and your phone is ringing itself to pieces from all those promoters trying to book you for good festivals – you have many options. You can decide to have a beer with lowly amateur Maine Coon instead of drinking martinis with Tiesto – I’d like that for sure.  But then it will be your choice, right? If you remain in obscurity because you have perfected 1 track instead of releasing dozens of good ones, snubbing Tiesto won’t be much of an option.
Anyway, I don’t measure a musician’s accomplishments by who he shares cocktails with – and I am sure neither do you. Just like I don’t value scientists by their golf club membership. It was just an example of what somebody (else) may consider success. Having hundreds of people enjoy your 3-hour set is another example. But there is no way anybody can produce 3 hours’ worth of perfect music. Simply good will have to do.
P.S. NIH (National Institutes of Health) Directors are big babas of biomedical research in the US. They distribute obscene amounts of tax money as research grants. So, yes, those people undoubtedly think themselves big VIPs.  |
|
|
|
Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Sep 12, 2010 22:48
|
Anyway, sorry about that giant OT. I thought it was a good illustration. Maybe it wasn’t.
I agree with everything you said. Wouldn’t want to be a part of the “psy factory”. I personally will probably go for endlessly tweaking and polishing my tunes. But then I don’t really count on releasing anything. And if I ever produce anything of “releasable” quality, I’ll give it away or distribute through a free label anyway (giving back to Ektoplazm would be really cool). I would just wanna be happy about what I wrote (and hopefully hear back from a couple of people who liked it too). Maybe that’s what you want? But if you want festival bookings and/or commercial releases, you’d have to consider quantity and timeliness too. Which may not sit well with your own quality standards.
Would be interesting to hear from OOOD people on this, by the way. They seem to find a very nice balance, don’t they?
|
|
|
|
*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Sep 13, 2010 05:10
|
Maine Coon, you make it so intriguing to dwell a little offtopic
what success means to people has very little to do with quality.
I'll ditch any imaginary institute that measures success by the brand suit you wear because from where i stand my $50 denim is still more durable than any $500 suit pants that's considered quality. so now these VIPs with their obviously flawed values still have the nerve to look down on "very unimportant people". no thanks, not even if they give that membership away.
No fokin way i'm poisoning my body with that shite. Where's the weed?
 |
|
|
|
Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Sep 13, 2010 18:14
|
^
Cool, I am looking forward to that beer then.
About success vs. quality. They can be related – if you are the one who defines them both. If your idea of success is achieving the best possible quality of work – regardless of what Tiesto or NIH Directors may think about it – your quality will be your success and your success will be your quality. Good luck to you with both. 
|
|
|
|
Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Sep 14, 2010 04:26
|
Quote:
|
On 2010-09-12 22:48, Maine Coon wrote:
Would be interesting to hear from OOOD people on this, by the way. They seem to find a very nice balance, don’t they?
|
|
Uhh... what to say. Thanks for saying nice stuff, firstly.
Secondly, here's a whole bunch of opinionated waffle that might or might not make sense, be relevant or be on-topic at all; I'm a bit fuzzy-headed having just got back this evening from a weekend at Waveform Festival.
I disagree with Leonardo Da Vinci's sweeping generalisation, at least in as much as it might apply to OOOD. There comes a point in our process with a track we're writing when it's finished; none of the 4 of us can think of any way we can make the writing of the track better, I/we are as happy with the production as possible given the skills we have, and we've tested the current 'final' version in our live set and the "listening to your own music through other people's ears" thing hasn't thrown up the need for any edits or extra sections or parts.
This process takes time, and an OOOD track will go through 10 or more 'final' versions before it's done. Or we might (rarely!) get it right on mix A or B; it's not unknown. It's time I'm happy to spend though, as - for me (and, I think, for the others in the band) - this whole thing is about making the best music I can, for as many different values of 'best' as I know how. srsly, what other factors are that important? Why make music at all if you don't want to make it as good as you can? There is no 'acceptable quality'. There is only The Best I (or We) Can Do. This is why Free Range took so long to make - we set the quality control to 'Ridiculous' and then broke the dial off.
This brings me to another point: "Surely the best you can do changes with experience - if I keep working on a track my skills will constantly improve so I'll constantly be able to improve the track and it will never be finished?" Finishing a track is definitely a skill of its own and I believe it is a skill well worth learning. We learned it with OOOD by working for many years with an analog studio with no multitrack recording facilities. With no recall of mixer or synth parameters, each tune had to be totally completed before we could start on the next one; this concentrates the mind wonderfully. For sure we were learning as we went along, and later tunes of ours sound better than earlier tracks, but to me this is part and parcel of developing as an artist. The point is, you do the best you can at the time, with the skills you currently posess, and finish tracks on the basis that you're constantly learning and developing and your next track will be better just by the sheer fact that by then you'll have been making music just that little bit longer. If you feel the compulsion to tweak continually without finishing anything, perhaps asking yourself "ok so I can make it sound different, but will this make it sound better?" could help give a bit of perspective. If your answer to that question is "I don't know!" then that sound is finished to the best of your ability and you should render it to a new audio file and delete the original as a way to stop yourself tweaking it. Fix that sound in stone and move on.
I have a little theory that most, if not all, of the 'infinite tweaker' crew are working on their own. Collaboration is another very good way to get perspective on the need for that final tweak. Also, a lot of people get bored by their own music after working on it for a while, and I think it's important to remember that first flush of excitement you got when you first made that riff (or whatever), and trust that people hearing it for the first time will also enjoy it, despite it having the shine worn off it by the repeated listenings necessary when writing.
This is just my opinion based on my own experience, and may not translate to your own working practises! E+OE
 Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
|
|
|
dija
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
483
Posted : Sep 14, 2010 10:03
|
Agree with Colin. There is no finished however, there is a time when enough is enough. There is just nothing that can be done to it in my eyes. Sure other people might want stuff done to it but unless i get the same answer from several people its staying the way i have it. Collab is good too. Finishing tracks is very difficult for me. Perhaps 1/10 that I start I even come close to finishing. I think if you hit 1/10 finished your doing well. Chalk the other 9 up as learning experiences.
http://www.youtube.com/user/trawhi (tutorials)
http://www.myspace.com/eusidmusic |
|
|
|
Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Sep 14, 2010 15:13
|
Quote:
|
On 2010-09-14 04:26, Colin OOOD wrote:
This is just my opinion based on my own experience
|
|
This is exactly what I was hoping for. Thanks. IMO, this post deserves to be filed in the FAQs. |
|
|
|
xoC
Cubic Spline
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
179
Posted : Sep 15, 2010 00:38
|
Quote:
|
On 2010-09-14 10:03, dija wrote:
Agree with Colin. There is no finished however, there is a time when enough is enough. There is just nothing that can be done to it in my eyes. Sure other people might want stuff done to it but unless i get the same answer from several people its staying the way i have it. Collab is good too. Finishing tracks is very difficult for me. Perhaps 1/10 that I start I even come close to finishing. I think if you hit 1/10 finished your doing well. Chalk the other 9 up as learning experiences.
|
|
wow. personnally, we are two and EVERY track we start goes to the finishing part !
and yeah, i think that in collaborations, the two (or more) points of view make it easier to finish tracks, and to know when it's done ! |
|
|
|
Becktrank
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
537
Posted : Sep 15, 2010 17:16
|
hey, when do you talk about production, do u mean teh overall quality of the sound right? mixing, mastering, timbres, etc...
``We shall not cease from exploration - And the end of all our exploring - Will be to arrive where we started - And know the place for the first time.``
bahia |
|
|
|
*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Sep 15, 2010 19:21
|
Quote:
|
On 2010-09-15 17:16, becktrank wrote:
hey, when do you talk about production, do u mean teh overall quality of the sound right? mixing, mastering, timbres, etc...
|
|
every aspect of making the product including composition.
|
|
|
|
*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Sep 15, 2010 19:42
|
thx to all contributions to this topic
Quote:
|
On 2010-09-14 04:26, Colin OOOD wrote:
ok so I can make it sound different, but will this make it sound better?" could help give a bit of perspective.
|
|
for sure, this can not be overstated,,
A LOT OF PERSPECTIVE
|
|
|
|
POL303
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
6
Posted : Sep 17, 2010 16:11
|
|
financial profit in psytrance????????, if i was lookin 4 profit i'd do minimal or pop |
|
|
|
dija
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
483
Posted : Sep 17, 2010 23:04
|
|
|
