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Quality
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*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Sep 11, 2010 19:04:00
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Do you sacrifice production quality in order to finish songs more quickly for financial profit?
its impossible for me define what quality means to you. you decide.
but for the purpose of this thread i will define what it means for me (music wise);
-Craftsmanship
-Attention to details
-To project a sense of pride in your art.
-Producing a product that you yourself put in high esteem.
anything that apposes your idea of poor quality.
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Sep 11, 2010 19:07
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imo there is always sacrifice or you never finish a track, get the quality needed for the label and don t bother , make music .the more you go in the production part the less you go in the musical one,you need to find the good balance, it s like that for me.
if you working for a album getting the best production quality make sense though but if you wamt to release stuff on va no need to bother too much as lomg as you sound as good as the others |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Sep 11, 2010 19:24
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It does not matter whether I make a tune for a VA or for the album...I just try to get things sounding to the best of my ability at the time, for example, we remixed some tunes from our first and second albums and it took me one afternoon to sort mix mistakes, re-EQ synth parts and replace the old kicks and basslines, with better ones, using the same drum and bass synths as well and they sounded 10 times better. So from a time frame point of view, it took a year to get to the point where it will take me one afternoon to make things sound *a lot* better, even if I thought back then that things sounded the best they could, cause I had reached the peak of my engineering abilities at the time.
I also disagree that the more you go in the production part, the less you go into the musical one, its nto either or from my experience, its a matter of of feeling good/shit/anything that gets the inspiration juices flowing and knowing the technical shit and rules, so you know the right places to "break" them at.
and there is no financial profit, we give the music out for free.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Chemogen
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
166
Posts :
713
Posted : Sep 11, 2010 20:32
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Spend as much time as necessary to get it sounding the best you know you can get it to sound. One thing I've learnt about the SA Psy scene is that financial gain from releasing tracks is non existent (at least it has been in my regard)
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Sep 11, 2010 22:42
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Sep 11, 2010 23:28
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*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Sep 12, 2010 00:42
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ok, discard the financial part. lets say they finish a work just to get it out the back door.
its rare, for me to find psytrance lately that you can recognize that the artist put a great deal of effort in. there is some exceptions.
i just get the feeling so many crappy trance is being released these days by artist who don't care about their work, like it was just slapped together in a few hours carelessly, more often by artist who produce full time.
thinking of quality, we can make an analogy like say look at BWM versus Hyundai. (no offense to anyone that owns a hyundai)
So much care and pride goes into the manufacturing of a BMW, and they go so far out their way and spare no expense to ensure a superior product. and that's what you get.
The other company just wants to get their product out the fabric asap.
I think the audio engineering part is as much apart of making psytrance as the musical part itself.
Many of you don't consider it in the same category of art as making music, but it is. they go together hand in hand.
i guess there should be cheap music for the general masses like affordable volkswagens, and i know not all productions can be master pieces.
like for wine, i have acquired a taste for good quality psytrance.. both musical and good engineering wise.
i don't know if there is a attitude out there amongst artist of carelessly finishing a song for the sake of a quick release.
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*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Sep 12, 2010 01:02
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@dh
btw, i know you go the extra mile to ensure good quality in your work.
Like the other day you made the kick&bass group compressions and you took the time and effort and care to make sure you made the right decision for the sake of quality in your work. I recognize that extra effort in your music 2
so i'm not referring to you as one of those artists i mentioned that lacks this virtue.
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knocz
Moderator
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1151
Posted : Sep 12, 2010 04:40
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Quote:
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On 2010-09-12 00:42, *eLliSDee* wrote:
i just get the feeling so many crappy trance is being released these days by artist who don't care about their work, like it was just slapped together in a few hours carelessly, more often by artist who produce full time.
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Well a lot of artist try their best, and sometimes that means it sucks. Listen to your own old tracks and you will see so many "errors" and "cruelty" in "quality", but that's because you tried your best before and now you have more experience and are "better".
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On 2010-09-12 00:42, *eLliSDee* wrote:
thinking of quality, we can make an analogy like say look at BWM versus Hyundai. (no offense to anyone that owns a hyundai)
So much care and pride goes into the manufacturing of a BMW, and they go so far out their way and spare no expense to ensure a superior product. and that's what you get.
The other company just wants to get their product out the fabric asap.
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In an enterprise quality is achieved throughout testing. The higher the testing standards are, the better the product. If you want to look at quality that way, then consider doing tests to your "product" (the music) with the end users (or listeners). I think every artist who played their music to someone else has made this test, because when the audience is listening you can analyze them and check their opinions in the end.
Perfection in quality is impossible, because you can always do a little more to it, it can always be better. So therefor you define your own meaning of "quality". I've heard tunes in 8 bit music that are amazing, entire albums recorded with only an instrument or two with lame studio equipment and skills, which was just amazing music. And on the other hand, guys with Top End gear and a good producer but the music just sucks (at least for me, to the guy who made it it must of sounded fine).
You define your own reality you live in.
Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz |
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*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Sep 12, 2010 08:18
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Quote:
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On 2010-09-12 04:40, knocz wrote:
Well a lot of artist try their best, and sometimes that means it sucks.
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I'm not pointing solely to the clarity aspect of quality in music.
I can appreciate even amateur productions if i notice that special effort has been made towards all aspects of the work. example; like instead of repeating some line bar after bar the artist took his/her sweet time to make the composition interesting.
but i agree with your opinion.
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Alekzis
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
81
Posted : Sep 12, 2010 08:45
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Leonardo Da Vinci once said that art is never finished, only abandoned. |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Sep 12, 2010 10:38
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i do it quite quickly... but i dont think i sacrifice that much.. compare to the advantages i get from working quick... (and yeah money is not the motive there since i release almost only in ektoplazm last 2 years)
besides its very easy to make better eq fast when the sources are great monitors are great and the room is acoustic.. that saves me the time of listening in few speakers or over-re-do eq's etc.
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Sep 12, 2010 12:48
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Quote:
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On 2010-09-12 00:42, *eLliSDee* wrote:
thinking of quality, we can make an analogy like say look at BWM versus Hyundai. (no offense to anyone that owns a hyundai)
So much care and pride goes into the manufacturing of a BMW, and they go so far out their way and spare no expense to ensure a superior product. and that's what you get.
The other company just wants to get their product out the fabric asap. |
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Well you are comparing two different types of music, addressing different listeners.
A hyundai is made up of cheaper parts, through a cost effective process and it is directed at people who do not apprecicate and can live without the things a BMW has to offer.
when I think about this analogy with psytrance, I am thinking about comparing Holy Men tunes to...erm some great sounding Sphongle tunes.
They are directed at different people, Holy Men tunes sound cheap, and like they were made on the playstation 1, whereas you can hear really expensive studio gear all over the place when you listen to Sphongle.
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On 2010-09-12 00:42, *eLliSDee* wrote:
i don't know if there is a attitude out there amongst artist of carelessly finishing a song for the sake of a quick release.
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I think that if there is such a thing, it plagues mostly (some) of the people who rely on making trance tunes to pay the rent.
Having a day job gives me a more relaxing way of writting/producing and it means I can take my time trying out new things, and just write music without caring about the current trends adn formulas in order to get enough gigs/sell tunes to pay the bills.
Now a lot of the big names, don;t lack quality engineering wise. They know their stuff and just bang mix after mix out and they all sound great. Its the writting part where they start to lose it... too much of the same tried and tested sounds and arrangements, and as does engineering, the writting part affects quality, in my ears at least...but the writting part is subjective, so overall, what is a good quality tune, varies from person to person.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Sep 12, 2010 14:55
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This question (like pretty much any other  ) can be answered from simple economic considerations. As the law of diminishing returns kicks in, at some point you “spend” on quality improvement more than you “get” in return. It’s exactly like that classic Econ 101 example of a supermarket hiring security guards: there is always some residual amount of shoplifting going on, of which the management is aware and consciously and deliberately not doing anything about it. It’s the point, at which hiring an extra security guard (and/or installing an extra security camera) costs more than what is lost to theft.
In your case, at some point those endless “final touches” you put on your track can eat as much time and energy as you’d need to write another track of the same, acceptable, quality. Also, at some other point (or even the very same one), your tweaks become so fine that, except for yourself and a handful of connoisseurs, nobody will notice them. Those tweaks just cost you an extra track you could’ve produced meanwhile.
All that is a bit theoretical to me, but I do have some practical experience in a different field that validates this reasoning. Maybe it’s a bit OT, but I feel it may help you put things into perspective.
I’ve met, worked for or collaborated with some perfectionist academic scientists. They would get excited about some findings and immediately expand their project without submitting their results to any academic journal. The reasoning is to get a bigger-better-killargh story worthy of NY Times headlines. It becomes like a snowball: the more “complete” the story gets, the more excited this scientist becomes and the more loose ends he wants to tie before unveiling his masterpiece. The end result is tragic in nearly 100% of these cases. Some of these guys run out of grant money and cannot secure any more funding (since they have not published anything in years). The lab goes bankrupt, all the employees get kicked out (with no papers to show for years of their hard work), the PI either trades his office for a cubicle and switches to 100% teaching load (which most of them hate) or simply gets fired. Another common scenario is that somebody else beats him to the punch and he reads his own masterpiece in the super-duper journal of his dreams – except under his competitor’s name. Yet another common case is when his masterpiece is finally finished but the topic has been irrelevant for a couple of years and nobody cares to publish it.
Then, of course, there are smart PIs, who publish little articles in so-so journals as they go, making their way up in the academic food chain, while diligently working on that killargh story for “Science” or “Nature Medicine”. Those are usually the ones who get tenured by the age of 40, have half a floor for their lab by the age of 50 and play golf with NIH Directors by the age of 60.
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Sep 12, 2010 18:38
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i think when you reach a level you dont really need to concenctrate much on production, in the end we don t make music for sound engineers ,it s just a small part of the listeners and not the one you should care,imo production should never be the priority over creativity and musicality, labels just want you to sound like their artists anyway so just get that sound and dont bother as long as you re not well known... i think i m a perfectioniest with production but with time i realesed it s loosing time, spending 2 or 3 afternoons in getting a fucking well produced beat some will have alreqdy make a tune that blast all the dancwefloor in the world in that time ,these days i really think as long as it sound good enough it s ok cause it take lot of working time from that good enought sound to very good production.( production quality is subjective to taste anyway ,what i think sound good enought is quality from well knonw full on artists) |
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