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psytrance in surround 5.1
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Jun 5, 2008 07:17
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Krazykid,
you are definitely moving in the right direction. The same way you can take a reverse whoosh before a break and rout it to LS & RS. That is part of the whole thingy. To me it is all about 3 dimensionality. Engulfing the listener in a new space... and creating a space (literally) which is in Harmony, not just some panning here and there. Another good technique is to go to alternate on your editpack and play with F1, F2 and F3. Works great, especially with 2 different mono tracks...
  Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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mk47
Inactive User
Started Topics :
118
Posts :
4444
Posted : Jun 5, 2008 09:14
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hey krazy , i don't know what format , my knowledge here is very limited , but i have a 5.1 hifi @ home .. and im very curious to hear .. so upload whatever format u see fit 
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Jun 6, 2008 00:10
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Audioholic
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
21
Posted : Jun 6, 2008 22:12
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hi, just some of my experience in 5.1 mixing:
dont think Stereo, get rid of all the rules (be mono compatible etc...)
try to think NATIVE multichannel ...
means:
compose for the different areas not only Front Left and Right!
Your listener is in the midlle of a new Sound Space. I suggest u to try to hear a 5.1 DTS record from A.Parsons called "on air" on a GOOD 5.1 HiFi Speakersetup.
I am a Jazz purist and that means a no go for 5.1 and Jazztrio, but wtf in electronic music there are no rules...
so guys, use ur creativity and give it a try.
BTW i use DTS only, because the quality is MUCH better ! Thanks A.Parsons who showed the difference to me.
Some thoughts u might take in your consideration:
u can achieve like:
Front left to Center, Center to Front right, Fl and Fr
Fr Sr
Sr Sl
and finally
Sl Fl
thats 6x different Stereo situation and what abt
Fr and Sl and Fl and Sr
which is a cross Stereo...
think abt all these possibilities and then understand, there is no good sounding 5.1 or 4.1 (no Center) which u can also play in Stereo. Its 5 or 4.1 ONLY....
call it NATIVE MULTICHANNEL or whatever but stop using Stereo mixes and only add some delays or FX on the surroundchannels, thats a shame (alot of 5.1 Music DVDs are mixed like that)
I think we have to reconsider that unlimited possibilities.
There is no commercial usa atm only few Home-Cinema Freaks will buy ur record but maybe we can share our experience her and have some free downloadable stuff then.
This is from the view of your listener, not the producers view...
I wish i had some nice multichannel good sounding records for my High End 5.1 Setups.
In the meantime its A. Parsons only who does nice 5.1 records...
Admin and Speakerdesigner at
http://www.AudioVideoForum.de |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Jun 7, 2008 02:17
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Why no Jazz in 5.1?
And for someone saying not to think stereo, what is all the
Fr Sr
Sr Sl
and finally
Sl Fl
about?
The idea is 3dimensionality, frankly I am waiting for a system to come out that has on top and below as well...
And if you get your LT RT right, your 5.1 mix will even sound good in a stereo setup !
Who the hell is using stereo mixes for 5.1 anyway?
Prologic 2....
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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psytendo
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
73
Posted : Jun 7, 2008 15:26
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Anyone any thoughts about Ambisonics?
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Audioholic
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
21
Posted : Jun 7, 2008 16:54
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is ist ok to go into details? It ends up in a very technical discussion abt phase/interference and so on. I dont wanna bother u.
BTW: 5.1 DD or DTS or the real DVD Audio posssibilities enables the listener to have 6-8 speparate channels !!! U studio guys could have had that situation long time ago. The Listener at home has now capabilities he still doesnt understand and knows how to handle.
Thats a BIG difference to all Pseudo Surround Versions like Prologic and x similar versions with just another trademark name.
Here u have ONLY Stereo source material and kinda try to get any extra signal with addition and subtraction of sound (very simplified descripition I know!)
I am new to the Forum so i dont know how complicated it might be here. From my first impressions i think lots of ppl here are actually musicians who need some basic knowledge of technicque (Hardware) and Software to make their musical ideas come true.
I started on a very naive base, when i mixed a DTS 5.1 record in 2002. Remeber that times, Nuendo and Cubase?
So my experience was on a Trial and error (100s of hours!) basis, and that is what i wanted to tell u.
Stereo has a long time of evolving and it came to a real High End status in the last 20 years...
5.1 is not commercial atm so there is not too much experience we can count on.
Thats why i go with a naive 6x Stereo imagination into the problem, if u downmix 6x stereo to 2 channels u end in a desaster Sound. Try it.
I wish i could sit on a big conference table with all interested guys and we had a 5.1 Studio setup to really show u at once what i mean..
Sorry, but i simply dont find the words to describe every complicated detail..
Thats why i simplify and hope everyone entering the field and playing with 5.1 remembers and and come to similar conclusions or can correct me.
Keep in mind i am a HiFi deveolper of speakers and was just pissed abt the very bad sounds u could find in the late 90s when u bought a DTS CD or klisten to music DVD with a DD5.1 track...
If 5.1 is a real interesting Thema, i suggest we start step by step and make a kinda FAQ. We need an Admin to help us get the thread clean and we need downloads for the guys who join the "Gang". What do you think?
Admin and Speakerdesigner at
http://www.AudioVideoForum.de |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Jun 7, 2008 17:48
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Quote:
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On 2008-06-07 02:17, Upavas wrote:
The idea is 3dimensionality, frankly I am waiting for a system to come out that has on top and below as well...
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14.2 The standard exists. I seem to remember there is a studio in Japan with a 14.2 set-up but I might be wrong.
UnderTow |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Jun 7, 2008 17:57
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Audioholic,
You can get as technical as you want. Some of the members on this forum are professional sound engineers. Others are not pro's but have a very good technical background (maybe from another field than sound) so don't worry about going over people's heads. If someone doesn't understand, they can always ask. That's the best way to learn. 
UnderTow |
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Audioholic
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
21
Posted : Jun 7, 2008 20:32
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what abt the multichannel FAQ for the guys getting into it? I am shure alot of ppl dont know the DVD-AUDIO specs which are quite complicated (the reason the industry fucked up that Format aswell).
DD and DTS is something u should ask for licensing, atleast i did ask the DTS guys and the were nice enough to give me a go. I didnt try Dolby but i wouldnt be surprised if they ask for shares.
So did all of u know the 6channel 48Khz DVD Audio Format without compression? This one doesnt use MLP which i mean its license free:
http://www.dvddemystifiziert.de/dvdfaqengl.html#3.6.1
read that ! Just to get into the Thema.
From my knowledge DVD Audio is even more a "Secret" than DD and DTS...
Obviouly its the simplest way of producing a Multichannel, because it ueses your original PCM Wave files !!! So yes, the later reproduced sound is like the original Harddisk Sound ... which is NOT the case in DD and even DTS ( which has 3x more Bandwith)
Admin and Speakerdesigner at
http://www.AudioVideoForum.de |
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Audioholic
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
21
Posted : Jun 7, 2008 20:45
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Btw: upper and lower speakers are already "existing" but dont confuse, thats the usual "my dick is longer" marketing that some dudes have like 7+1 or something like that.
THE BIG STEP forward from Stereo is already 4 channel + separated Subs = all Frequencies less than 50 Hz go to the Subwoofer ONLY and dont interfere the Sat-Sound. This in my opinion is one of the big advantages in this Home Cinema chains...
it gives the Speakerdesigner the possibility to not compromise in Midrange (mostly 2 way systems), u have faster response and better efficiency than a 6" woofer AND Midrange driveunit.
Admin and Speakerdesigner at
http://www.AudioVideoForum.de |
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psytendo
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
73
Posted : Jun 7, 2008 21:16
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Ambisonics can do Up and Down.
Also, the decoder can be adjusted for any speaker setup.
So if you have music in ambisonic B-format you can adapt it to 2.0, 4.0, 5.1, etc at the receiver side.
I wonder why this is not the standard.
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Audioholic
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
21
Posted : Jun 8, 2008 00:20
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thats not multichannel, its a fake format like other "surround" systems..
I do not accept those, because they dont do what i wanted. A lot of those are pure marketing tardemark which only works under 1 special condition which no one can achieve in his Home System.
I am shure most of you didnt get the point. Multichannel means u have 5 keyboards surrounding you , like u have a band at home and 5 keyboarders would also surround u. Ur place is in between all of them imagine what u can do then in sound design.
i know it sounds stupid but i want to make VERY clear Multichannel is NOT "surround"sound...
Multichannel means u must reconsider ur Musiksetup not only in sound but in PLACE!
I wish we could talk.... writing means misunderstanding... But if some multichannel expereinced guys would join the thread maybe they could better explain my point.
Admin and Speakerdesigner at
http://www.AudioVideoForum.de |
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psytendo
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
73
Posted : Jun 8, 2008 01:03
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Audioholic (or anyone),
Interesting thoughts altho i do understand the possibilities of good multi channel sound
What would be a good approach for localization (panning)?
And about reverbs.
Use pre-made multichannel ones or build your own networks and maybe working together with the panning ?
Just some questions that have been bugging me for some time.
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Jun 8, 2008 21:10
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can use either reverb...
As far as panning is concerned, try to pan so frequencies from different tracks don't cancel each other out.
Go crazy with fx and leads and make sure you don't overdo the panning either, or the peeps on the dancefloor might get motionsick and puke their guts out.
Keep the whole thing round...
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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