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Provide Digital Delivery..!?!? Offer to the lables...
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Sep 8, 2004 14:01
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Hi,
Reading some misconceptions about selling Mp3 downloads I tought I post some of my experiences about setting up such a system, and offer my services to any lables that is interested.
Common myths, some of which I believed myself until recently:
1 It's expensive to accept card payments online.
Paypal offers an exellent service, which is very hassle free and sequre for the user.
You don't even need a bank account to use it and the charge 2-3% + $0.3 per transaction.
Compare that with what is left of what the customer pays in the shop for a CD.
2. Hosting is expensive for that amount of bandwidth and server space.
It can for sure be costly, and especially if it includes a service for digital delivery.
At least in Sweden you can get a ADSL or even cable account for not more that about $40-50 per month and they be sufficient for most lables to keep up with the demand.
I could offer hosting with unlimited space for anyone not being able to find a suitable provider for about $350/year.
3. Mp3 is not good enough sound quality.
Obviously it is good enough for most people since they anyway seem to prefer to download than buy CD's. And from 192k and up it is very difficult to distiguish according to any blind tests made. 320k Mp3 is pretty much impossible to hear the difference, even with exellent ears and equipment.
And for the sceptics and people with ultra sensitive hearing you can provide lossless formats like FLAC.
4. It's a complicated system and will cost loads to have set up.
True, it's takes a lot more skills than setting up your regular lable site. I don't think it's easy to find a serious developer cheaply either.
To eliminate this argument from the list I will offer as a carrot to lable owners to set up the system for €700. Your designer make a scetch for me to set the design layout, and I realise it into a site with a digital delivery system. If you feel you need a list with merits and previous clients, mail or pm me.
5. If you put it on the internet anyone who bought an mp3 can spread it to everyone straight away.
Wake up, it's hardly a hassle to grab a CD and put in your DC++ folder. Rather a sport for release groups to be first to do it, and at least you deprive them of that pleasure.
And you can control the quality and tagging of the files as well.
And who can blame someone really that they don't wan't order a CD online, wait a few day's for it to arrive, and then actually realise that you only like a couple of tracks on it and of the money you spent only a small fragment goes to the lable and artists.
I think until one can complain about the situation, you have to provide something for those customers.
Since I'm not running a lable as such, just a renegade underground distribution site, according to what i can find, the title 'first trance lable offering digital delivery' is still up for grabs.
So go on, talk to your webdesigners if the can set it up for a reasonable cost, otherwise contact me and you have it up and running in a few weeks time.
If you want to look at the system I made for my site, the URL: http://www.resonantearth.com.
If you are a lable owner that want to test the shopping system, send me a mail and I can arrange a refund on any test purchases made.
If you have any question that I left unanswered, I'd be happy to help with answers.
BOM
Leo |
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Sep 8, 2004 16:17
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On 2004-09-08 14:01, Spindrift wrote:
3. Mp3 is not good enough sound quality.
Obviously it is good enough for most people since they anyway seem to prefer to download than buy CD's. And from 192k and up it is very difficult to distiguish according to any blind tests made. 320k Mp3 is pretty much impossible to hear the difference, even with exellent ears and equipment.
And for the sceptics and people with ultra sensitive hearing you can provide lossless formats like FLAC.
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I can distinguish 320kbps from wav, sometimes 
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Sep 8, 2004 16:33
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On 2004-09-08 16:17, Mike A wrote:
I can distinguish 320kbps from wav, sometimes
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ok, 
Have you done blind test using lame on highest quality settings?
Then I belive you.
According to the tests I seen with professional producers doing that, it is not a easy task, and can be done only by few people with training.
I can't tell the difference between dat and CD but I can tell the difference between a badly recorded CD and a good recorded one. Same goes for mp3. A badly recorded mp3 is very recognisable. |
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krelm
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
67
Posts :
648
Posted : Sep 8, 2004 16:44
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Good ideas, but I doubt many labels will buy on to this, even if they do want to find a digital distribution option.
When you are talking only €1-2 gross per track (minus fees, naturally), even a €700 setup fee is quite a bit of money. I don't think that most labels have that sort of cash laying around. I absolutely would like to see all labels selling their tracks digitally, but for the majority of them to jump on, it's got to be cheaper.
Why not just go with the already established digital outlets that are doing the job extremely well? DJ Laureth (@ Plusquam) set up www.clickatrack.com which deals almost exclusively with psy/progressive labels. There are several other places online that deal in electronic labels - currently very little psytrance, but just because no psy labels have given it a try. Minimal cost for setup (on the label side), and very little cost/effort with upkeep.
Check these places out...
www.clickatrack.com (psy-oriented)
www.edmdigital.com
www.beatport.com (they actually have several Twisted releases available)
IMO, stores such as these are a much better option than labels going it on their own.
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Dr. Krelm DJ Mixes and Broken Symmetry archives - http://www.krelmatrix.com
Broken Symmetry on MCast - coming in 2007.... |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Sep 8, 2004 17:09
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IMHO those sites are not realistic whatsoever.
Emd digital was the best one I seen so far though, offering at least hi-res formats. But $2.50 for a FLAC file...they gotta be kidding.
To anyone trying to sell 192k mp3 for $1.50, I can just say good luck. .
The customers I had so far has been DJ's wanting 320k mp3 for playing. I for sure would not pay $15 for downloading a CD in 192k format when you can find hi-res for free.
$1-2 dollar per track left for the lable and artist is a lot per sold track.
For each sold full CD in a shop you are talking no more than about a couple of dollars left for the lable and artist to share anyway...on a full CD in the shop!!
And with any investment like that, you have to calculate it of on a 3year period.
You would have to sell a bit over 1000 downloads in a year to make profit after hosting and design costs.
And if you don't have $700 lying around, how can you press CD's? It's about prioritising.
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krelm
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
67
Posts :
648
Posted : Sep 8, 2004 18:29
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Actually, Beatport is probably the best deal for the quality - they sell 320kbps .mp3 tracks for anywhere from $.99 to $1.99 (depending on how recent the track is). They used to only offer 192kbps mp3 and 128kbps mp4 files, but they just updated to the higher quality (only for mp3 so far) in the last 2 weeks. Most of their catalog is priced at $.99-$1.29 - regardless of bitrate - with the really new releases, pre-releases or exclusive digital-only releases priced higher. And when you do the conversion to €€€ for those of us on this side of the pond, it is even a better deal. 
Click-a-track has a fantastic selection and good prices (€.99 per track), but I do not like the fact that everything is only 192 kbps. If they updated to 320kbps, I would probably blow a lot of money there.
EDM Digital is definitely quite pricey for good quality, but the nice thing about that place is that they do work with a lot of unsigned artists and sell *really good* tracks that are otherwise unavailabe anywhere else.
Another thing to consider is that most of the files sold in current digital stores are digital versions of previously-vinyl releases. On a per-track basis, vinyl is horribly expensive (usually €8-11 for one record with 2 tracks, often only one of which is good), so even spending €2 on a high-quality digital copy is a fantastic deal.
I don't envision people buying *entire* CD albums or compilations in this manner, but I would like the option of buying one or two tracks off an otherwise boring album/comp and have heard many others express this as well. Not having a ton of money to spend on music, when I run across a CD with only one or two decent tracks on it, I usually hold off on buying it and hope to run across a 2nd hand copy on ebay eventually. Were I able to buy those 1-2 tracks individually in high quality (even for €1-2/track), I would not hesitate to buy them.
I personally would love it if labels would take you up on your offer and start going digital - this is the next step in music distribution and it is incredibly important that labels jump on ASAP to keep up. I just think that it is still a sizeable investment (time and money) for them to go it alone. Bigger labels like TIP World or Spirit Zone or Digital Structures probably have the means, but most smaller labels are very strapped for cash, and €700 is still quite a bit of money.
A suggestion - instead of offering your services to help the labels build their own system of digital distribution, why don't you expand your current platform (or make a new one) and have more of a store where you do the selling for them? That is still a huge open field in the psy scene, and could be an extremely good move. I am sure that many labels would quickly jump on board.
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Dr. Krelm DJ Mixes and Broken Symmetry archives - http://www.krelmatrix.com
Broken Symmetry on MCast - coming in 2007.... |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Sep 8, 2004 19:20
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A suggestion - instead of offering your services to help the labels build their own system of digital distribution, why don't you expand your current platform (or make a new one) and have more of a store where you do the selling for them? That is still a huge open field in the psy scene, and could be an extremely good move. I am sure that many labels would quickly jump on board.
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Selling stuff is not my interest, good music is.
I will expand my site with more artists, but I prefer to keep it to around 10 artist to keep it at a level where i can have it as a hobby.
There is better customers than psychedelic trance freak to focus on to make money.
And the idea of the sites you mentioned doesn't appeal to me. It's just a unnecessary link in the chain that don't make it easier to find what you are looking for but more difficult.
A lable is the perfect amount of artists gathered in one place to make for a nice experience for users.
The great thing for me about the technology is that you can cut out distibutors and shops.
Why recreate them virtually?
I would not offer my services at that price for a online shop like those either, because I don't find any reason to support it.
And considering it look's more and more like lables have to find other avenues to get their income, I think it would be great if they could do hosting and selling of the tracks directly and retain all the profits.
And there is not much gain in running a bigger operation economically. If you want huge amounts of bandwidth you have to pay for it.
If you can run your site on up to a 10Mb connection then you can do it cheap.
They have to do something or become like the sites you mentioned anyway. If all they do is submitting the works to those sites, which the artist can do themself directly anyway, they will be very superflous indeed.
Anyway the users of the sites will be mostly unaware of what label they buy from.
So sure they can leave it to big generalised shop and dissappear into history, but somehow I think that's not what neither the lables or trance fans want. Me not anyway. |
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krelm
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
67
Posts :
648
Posted : Sep 9, 2004 15:33
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I see your reasoning for not wanting to open a store yourself - personally I wouldn't have any desire to do it myself either.
Ultimately, I will buy high-quality digital files wherever they are available. But, speaking as a consumer, I prefer to be able to purchase tracks from several labels at one location. It is convenient and easy for me to surf through 2-3 sites and get most of what I want rather than having to look at the sites of each individual label. In general, the presence of the middle man does in theory raise prices somewhat, but the convenience is worth it - especially if we are talking such a small amount as with digital downloads.
Although, with the few labels I have seen that sell their own material digitally, their prices are no better than the online stores. Bedrock charges £1.49 per track at 320 kbps. 3Beat charges a ridiculous £1.99 per track at 320 as well. Release Records (label + store) does about $3 Can (~$2 US) for a "mp3 single", ie 2 tracks, at 256 kbps. Fade Records is $1.49 per track (not sure about bitrate). And so on. I have yet to see a label sell individual tracks for less than Beatport or Click-a-Track. Cutting out the middle-man *could* make things cheaper, but unfortunately, in execution, it hasn't. 
Actually, EDM Digital is the only one of the stores I mentioned that works with independent artists and not strictly labels. And with this place, it is not like just *anybody* can submit tracks to be sold - they have a pretty strict screening process. Many of those in the "independent artists" section do already have prior releases under their belts (some are quite well-known), so the site is not flooded with half-assed music from Joe-nobody. Even with that, the vast majority of what they sell comes from labels. I'm just slightly put off by the prices for the high-quality formats.
But when it comes to digital stores, beatport.com is by far the best I've used. They have an excellent search and directory interface for finding what you want. Their downloads are at 320 kpbs mp3 or 192 kbps (variable) mp4, so the quality is no issue. Their pricing system is *extremely* fair, IMO. My only problem with them is that they don't have *every* label I like, but that comes with time.
Whatever it takes, and whatever road they choose, I do dearly hope that eventually *all* labels add the digital option to their distribution. It won't stop illegal downloading and trading, but there are enough music geeks-on-a-budget like me to make it profitable. Labels - LISTEN TO YOUR CONSUMERS!!!
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Dr. Krelm DJ Mixes and Broken Symmetry archives - http://www.krelmatrix.com
Broken Symmetry on MCast - coming in 2007.... |
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Sep 9, 2004 17:56
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Quote:
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On 2004-09-08 16:33, Spindrift wrote:
ok,
Have you done blind test using lame on highest quality settings?
Then I belive you.
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It wasn't a blind test, but you could clearly hear some artifacts on the kick. Bad for the dancefloor, where you want it nice and clean. 
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Sep 9, 2004 21:20
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ok, we keep this
seems like no labels is interested anyway
Mike A:
And what encoder??
Lame at the highest quality option??
And it's very easy to with a minute subjective difference like this to actually avoid fooling yourself when you know that you are listening to the mp3.
Anyway, sure there might be a minute difference, but I don't have the hearing to notice myself.
I DJ with traktor, and only play wav. I have enough space on the drive for that anyway, and I don't download the music.
Luckily for you Mike there is FLAC, is that fine with your ears?
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Sep 9, 2004 21:52
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" -b 320 -m s -q 0 -k" as lame options. Good enough?
Anyway - I dunno FLAC, but if it's a loseless format like APE (Monkey's Audio) then I'm fine with it.
But I prefer my music on plastic anyway
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Sep 9, 2004 22:59
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On 2004-09-09 21:52, Mike A wrote:
" -b 320 -m s -q 0 -k" as lame options. Good enough?
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Still to really make me belive you are blessed with super hearing you would have to do a blind test though
Check out http://www.hydrogenaudio.org on how you perform a proper ABX test.
And yes FLAC is lossless. I just knew about ape and the old emagic one, zap, before.
Researhing more it seems to me FLAC will be the digital delivery format for hi-fi fanatics.
A few sites feature it already, and a few hardware mp3 players have decoders. And most software players have a plugin for it.
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