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programming bass sounds
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blowa
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
3
Posted : Nov 18, 2010 22:37:22
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Hi
I really getting nowhere trying to make a deep sounding prog style bass sound from NI massive.
I have been experimenting and I'm not really sure what waves to use and how many, what filters and envelope setting,etc.
i'm not looking for specific sound just a deep bass sound to start me off so I can keep experimenting and create other bass sounds from different tunes.
The tune im writing is 132bpm.
Any help would be great!
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A.Rosengren
Solid Snake
Started Topics :
266
Posts :
4139
Posted : Nov 18, 2010 22:44
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I'd close massive, and open any other synth (not a clusterfuck of shit and parameters like massive or the any NI for that matter) and try either a low sine-wave with mod envelope on cutoff to give it some punch. Same applies to the saw. Sometimes just using 1 osc is enough. Play with the ADSR on both mod env and filter envelope depending on circumstances.
imho.
A
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
112
Posts :
1490
Posted : Nov 18, 2010 22:52
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But Mr. Mod:
Cutoff ModEnv on a sinewave would have no effect whatsoever
:/ |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Nov 18, 2010 22:55
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Forget the layered bass for now imo. It's a more advanced technique and until you have the single oscillator Saw wave bass down I wouldn't worry about it - you can get pro bass that sounds very very good with just 1 saw oscillator and good tweaking/EQ.
I am far, far, far (far far, far far far far far) from pro but I've had good success with a fairly limited approach to bass - focus on your amplifier envelope, your filter envelope, your filter settings (cutoff, low resonance, filter mod/depth/env) and your EQ.
I'm also not a fan of Massive or the NI instruments - for bass try Alien 303, Sylenth1, Zebra2, Trillian, Cronox2.....
If you haven't yet, read the Mother of all Basslines thread here...also look for posts by Speakafreaka on the psymusic.co.uk forums he has a couple posts that lay out pretty much everything you would ever want to know (plus a lot more) about bass patch construction
or bug half of solid snake here for some more tips, his bass is banging 
 If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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freez
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
111
Posted : Nov 19, 2010 00:47
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What do you guys not like about Massive? (what is a clusterfuck? )
I use it a lot, and seem to like it, but it's also the only one i really know how to use.
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jekvan
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
406
Posted : Nov 19, 2010 00:50
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Quote:
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On 2010-11-18 22:37:22, blowa wrote:
Hi
I really getting nowhere trying to make a deep sounding prog style bass sound from NI massive.
I have been experimenting and I'm not really sure what waves to use and how many, what filters and envelope setting,etc.
i'm not looking for specific sound just a deep bass sound to start me off so I can keep experimenting and create other bass sounds from different tunes.
The tune im writing is 132bpm.
Any help would be great!
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Hmmm,using monster synth like massive,actually any composite synth for bassline is kinda going the opposite way,no?
There is no need in complex synth at all,just one that can emulate harmonic richness of a hard synth id say.You don't need much at all,all you need is just one to two oscilators for the beggining,and ADSR controls.
I did it actually with 2 TS404 osc's in flstudio(one was sine for the low end for the bass itself,the other is high end saw+narrow pulse to give it listenable characteristics),which are the simple as it can get.It's just the experimentation that takes fuking lot of time,till it sounds good,and it realy is preferable to experiment on absolutely simplest synth.
Remember,soft synth can have different sounds with the same parameters,so again,it's alot of playing till you get the desired sound,so it's better to do it with simple and sturdy soft synth-basslines do not require much complexity,but much subtleness (it took me fukking long time to acheave the sound I wanted-a month,and actualy someone helped me with EQ and compressing).
Anyway,instead of bla-bla,here is what helped me the most,Tom Cosm tutorials,cause he actually explains the reasoning behind what he does,instead of do this do that.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cosm+bassline&aq=f
I did it using his tips,only for high end I used a mix of saw and mostly PWM with narrow band (or was it wide?) to get the sound I wanted. |
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A.Rosengren
Solid Snake
Started Topics :
266
Posts :
4139
Posted : Nov 19, 2010 01:07
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Quote:
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On 2010-11-18 22:52, aciduss wrote:
But Mr. Mod:
Cutoff ModEnv on a sinewave would have no effect whatsoever
:/
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I'm not making sense again, I was talking about the saw/square
A
Use it
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Nov 19, 2010 01:42
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As much as I <3 Tom Cosm - I have found that his bassline stuff hasn't been as helpful if you are looking for psybass - his music is very experimental/freeform and live-based...not that that's bad, but he also does things that are a little bit (to use his words) "naughty" - like boosting bass frequencies and stuff that I've seen other psy producers decry.
He also does a lot of bass layering but I personally have found that it's too advanced of a technique for me...every time I've tried that technique of layering a sine in, or god forbid 3+ layers for bassline it has ended up sounding not-as-good as my single osc Saw wave basses.
So if you're an experienced producer and you really know your shit, I'm sure you can get a lot of great stuff out of bass layering but if you're still new to bass? stay away for now and learn your basics
of course it goes without saying that experimentation is great, but you have to learn to walk before you can dance
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Padmapani
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
431
Posted : Nov 19, 2010 02:31
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Quote:
| for bass try Alien 303, Sylenth1, Zebra2, Trillian, Cronox2..... |
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i've read that cosmosis has used abl2 for the bass of re-order so i tried my luck with abl and got good results. i can recommend it. for me it's way easier than with for example zebra2 or even albino; i guess because the synth is so simple and you're not tempted to use a lot more features than are necessary |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Nov 19, 2010 03:00
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Cosmosis released a bunch of free patches for Albino a while back that are bass oriented, and more recently he has been using Zebra2
He mentions this in some of his videos on his website
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Nov 19, 2010 05:10
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i guess in most synths you will find presets that can be used for a prog bassline |
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Kryten
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
333
Posted : Nov 19, 2010 05:16
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Speaking of Cosmosis, he has a video course called "Bassline Secrets". It does cost a bit, but I found it to be worth the money.
Helped me alot, and I dont struggle anymore at least with building simple basses. (single OSC&single Env)
My first track:
http://soundcloud.com/kryten/ |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Nov 19, 2010 05:40
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i have not much idea about prog bassline (don t listen prog ) but if wanted to try to make one with massive i would try a mix between the saw and square oscillator then use a low pass filter (maybe the daft filter or lp4 or 2)that you place were it sound good in the low and add envelop modulation on it (i would try a envelop with the sustain and attack to 0 and wont touch much the decay time from the init position and use around 60% of modulaton on the low pass filter and then adjust the filter/env amount/filter env decay time so it sound good with the kick ) then i would set the second filter to the same position as the first one with the same envelop modulation (or not,something to experiments ) + add a lfo on it to make some woobble and then i would mess with some other modulation (or use autmation on the crossfader between the filter to add some mouvment every few bare or here and there) like the perf one (7) on the crossfader between the 2 filters + some distortion , maybe modulate the pitch with something.. or the mix between square and saw.. not sure it would sound like a prog bass at all but it could do the trick. i hope it give you some ideas to try , it s just how i see it in my head but i would probably change many setting while tweaking the synth to taste.. it can give you idea for experimentation. (forgot but i would probably lock the oscillator to reset on each note but not sure.. might depends the midi pattern ) |
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blowa
Started Topics :
3
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3
Posted : Nov 20, 2010 14:10
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Thanks for the technical tips!
Will try them this afternoon.
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dija
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
483
Posted : Nov 20, 2010 14:37
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In prog all your doing is slowing it down and modifying a full on bass slightly. However in prog theres more room to play with routing of the bass high passing choruses etc. the main thing you will do here is make your envelope sweep to a lower tone. so the attack of the bass has a nice punchy hit that nobody can miss followin by the slow rolling low end.
http://www.youtube.com/user/trawhi (tutorials)
http://www.myspace.com/eusidmusic |
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