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Professional reviewers overdosing?
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Bom*shankar
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
512
Posted : Jun 20, 2006 21:23
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I wanted to raise an issue that bothers me a little.
There are some members here that review CDs professionaly- when I say that here I mean that they get almost every cd out from labels and review almost all of them in this forum and others. Now, I see how many reviews they make, and I wonder- how much cds they listen to? How much time is left for each cd? How many times they actually listen to a cd before reviewing? 1? 2? 3? 10? (When does a review mean something- after 1 listen? 2? 3? 10?). Do they have time to listen to other kinds of music with all that trance or they are stuck in this genre, that's let us admit, is not the biggest innovator and sign of quality these days- do they have a reference?
Sometime I feel that these reviews miss many points in a CD when I read them. I don't listen to so many cds (also because many times I get bored and abandon them quite fast). But when I like a cd I listen well and many many times, and then when i read those review here, I think to myself- this guy didn't even get it, he missed so much here.
Also many times I feel that cds get decent reviews here that they don't deserve- I know this is subjective and all, but I'm talking about objective things that you find out when you listen properly, like parts that don't sit in place musicly (and I'm not a musician, I just listen well), or music that is so unoriginal that with some deep listening you identify what it tries to be like, or using music and parts from other genres and using them in a bad way (like droping Arab & Indian music samples out of scale (and out of nowhere)- someone who listen to this kind of music hear that at onece).
I'm not trying to say something bad about these people, I'm sure they're all honest and for sure you can see some make a big effort to write in depth about the cds. I'm just raising a point to think about it, and would like to know what you think on it.
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pr0fane
Multiphase
Started Topics :
418
Posts :
3816
Posted : Jun 20, 2006 22:09
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That is actually some pretty interesting points you made, and some of them have been on my mind for a while as well.
I guess I am in the group you would categorize as a "professional reviewers" - not that I in any way would say that I'm professional myself, but I do write a fair amount of reviews, and I do receive a few promo-CD's from labels each month.
When I have finished a review, I would on average have listened to the release something like 10-15 times. Maybe it's not enough - maybe it's more than enough. Sometimes I "get the point" of a CD the very first time I hear it (happened with Jaïa and Vibrasphere for instance), sometimes it takes several listens, sometimes it takes months, sometimes even years, and sometimes I never "get the point" of a CD.
Concerning the point about listening to other kinds of music, I partly agree on my own behalf. I basically listen to music all the time that I sit at home, so I pretty much have loads of time on my hands dedicated to music, but I must admit I have reached a point where the workload of making more than a handful of reviews of CD's I get sent each month, is too much - especially with the CD's I don't like. Not only does the reviewing-process require listening to the release extensively a number of times, writing the review also takes lots of time. Therefore I have already a few times told labels something in the lines of this: "Hey, I appreciate that you sent me the CD, but I've heard it a couple of times now, and I don't really like it so far. Therefore I am going to ask you if it's ok that I don't write the review - it's going to save myself for a lot of time, and also save you for a possibly quite negative review. Thanks again". That's also why I mainly write generally positive reviews - thank god for guys like Damion Psyreviews who still has the time and guts to review the bad stuff 
Oh well, I almost make it sound like it's extremely hard work, but in all honestly it's of course great to receive music for free from labels - and sometimes even before the official release-date. And remember, a review is only the subjective opinion of ONE person   DJ pr0fane (Iboga Records) | Multiphase
www.sunrisesupplies.com | www.iboga.dk | www.soundcloud.com/pr0fane |
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Jun 20, 2006 22:46
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Those are some very valid points you have raised, bom. The thing to keep in mind that there are different types of reviews out there. What you are talking about is what I think of as promotional reviews - a quick and dirty overview with some flash and sizzle, nothing too in-depth. They serve a purpose, by giving a personal view of a new release. Will they stand up to scrutiny? Maybe not - but they aren't written for the ages.
The fact is that labels want to get a quick turn-around on their investment. Some reviewers do the quick and dirty, so they start to get more labels sending them stuff. It is Darwinian, in a way. This is why some reviewers get a lot of promos, and I get next to zero 
There is a bit of a paradox at work here. If you want to read reviews of new releases, you are going to get opinions formed prematurely, when an individual's conception of a piece has not developed very far towards some theoretical final or near-final state. The result is that most review threads, in retrospect, tend to inflate the worth of a release due to the effect of novelty and a filtration process caused by the widespread habit of only writing about releases that one enjoys (of course that filter is inverted for the most loathed acts and releases - see the recent Dali review for a great example). Knowing this, one can read the reviews with a compensating bias, which might help.
You might not be aware of my reviews archive, since I don't usually post my work anywhere... so here's the link *plug*
http://www.ektoplazm.com/reviews/?view=all |
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DeathPosture
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
142
Posts :
547
Posted : Jun 20, 2006 23:05
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First of all: Thanks for keeping a formal, polite tone in your post. And thanks for not attacking anyone personally. Much obliged. =D
Secondly: I know you didn't mention any names, but there are only so many people who fit the description you made.
I'm sick and tired of having to defend myself over and over again... I'm not a professional - I'm just your Average Joe that knows squad about technical mumbo jumbo - and has little or zero knowledge in advanced writing/story telling.
Look, none of us are getting paid to write reviews... We mainly do it because it's fun - and personally I review CDs mainly for myself... To keep track of what's good and what's not good on a given release... Writing a track-by-track review 'forces me' to listen extra carefully and take on different perspectives...
And by listening carefully I mean carefully... Before I even start on a review, I have listened thru the CD at least 4-5 times, and during the actual writing process I go thru it again a number of times... Writing a lengthy review is actually a pretty arduous task - for me it takes between 3-6 hours and sometimes double that... Do the math on my 'hourly wage' yourself!
About reference: Yes, reference points and benchmarking is important when writing reviews... My life is pretty much devoted to music. All kinds of genres really. I've worked in a record shop for 2½ years, I own more than 2000 original CDs in a variety of styles, I have a DJ residency working pretty much every weekend in a major club in my hometown and I go out A LOT... Also, my reviews of psytrance-related stuff over the years have created a personal 'review bank' which I often draw on when reviewing new stuff from a given artist/label/etc. So yeah, I'd like to think I have a little reference...
Anyway, if my personal reviews are to any use of others (which I'm told again and again that they are) then of course I'll post them here and on other forums. Reviews have often helped me in the past to decide if I should spend the extra bucks on a certain release or not.
But please do not judge me as a professional reviewer that gets paid... I review exactly what I want, when I want and how I want to...
My $0.02 worth of rant... Thanks for listening!
/DP
On really romantic evenings of self, I go salsa dancing with my confusion... |
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Rah
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
77
Posts :
498
Posted : Jun 20, 2006 23:24
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if by professional review you mean not using smilies in every other line ending with KILLARGHH!! then guilty as charged
1- I usually leave a CD in player for a week, a couple of weeks before i start writing anything, that’s why i most of my reviews come so late, because i like to take my time with them. I posted once my old stats.fm account or whatever is called i usually listen to a cd good 30-40 times before i publish. I stopped listening to IDM, Jazz, Lounge and some old punk... but i love this music, is what i play so I’m only happy to keep hearing more of it. Admittedly there has been times when i need to go back to a review and say, hey perhaps that wasn't all that fair, or perhaps i didn't communicate things as clearly... nobody is perfect. More often than not, one or two weeks is enough time to make my mind about it.
2- Not every CD that gets reviewed by me means is a promotional copy. I buy my fair share music monthly to keep up with the times and if i find the release outstanding i will review it, because i feel i have an obligation to keep my website updated about good music. This leaves no time for bad releases, and since i only receive music I’m interested either from the shops or in promos, then i have no problem. Was i not to like a CD like pr0fane, i send a polite message and explain the review will not be positive. But the way i see things, there's no point writing an 'over-inflated' review if you don't like the music... what's the point? So you can get more music you don't like? - this is all my from my side and how I do things.
3- Writing a proper long review takes a lot of time, more than people would think and most of times i'm simply trying to inform people how it sounds and if disliked anything why i did. I'm not here to properly 'critique' music, i don't make music and you don't either, so i don't feel like I’m in any position to tell people what kick they should have used or whatever. If labels send people copies of their music is because they feel is worth it, i can tell you there aint such thing as a free lunch. What many people have realized is that a review -good or bad- can create more publicity online than sending a CD to some DJ that might play a few tracks that 99% of the people will not bother to ask “who was that you were playing?”.
4- If you think a review was not appropriate for a release i invite YOU to write your own review then. You might find this thing takes more time and work than you originality though. Last year i was trying the approach to describe music, but it gets tiring to write it and to read it... have you ever tried describing what a track by Derango sounds from minute 1 to 8 with technical issues?? So i like to digress in other points that might be funny or interesting... sometimes is just nonsense! have you ever read a sports review by hunter s. thompson? he talks about everything except who won and what happened in the game, but people still read them... that’s simply another example of how to do things.
elementoftime.net
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orange
Fat Data
Started Topics :
154
Posts :
3918
Posted : Jun 20, 2006 23:34
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Bloodclot
Bloodclot
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2190
Posted : Jun 20, 2006 23:45
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Was waiting for one of these topics to come up soon. Actually most of the regular reviewers here are doing a super job at reviewing cd's. Most of the time while reading these reviews I see that there is a lot of depth expressed to which at times I don't understand. Maybe that is part of what shankar means when he says "they just dont get it". But the answer to that is pretty simple, music is an art and practically speaking an art can't really be judged. Every track will evoke different emotions for different people hence opinions like "I don't like that track' or 'That track was monsterous' do float around, but then that just shows how diverse our thoughts are! Well I guess you can't really strike all the pins down at a go when it comes to passing reviews with an art as such. I'd say each to his own.
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Jun 21, 2006 00:16
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Quote:
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On 2006-06-20 23:34, orange-atropa wrote:
i think this thread has the most filled answers i saw inhere ever!
sooo many letters... ohh!!
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I think it is obvious that we all enjoy writing I suspect reviewing has become, at least in part, a creative writing exercise for some of us... I know my writing has improved many times over in the process of learning how to write essay-style reviews, and it is probably the same for some of the others!
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Bom*shankar
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
512
Posted : Jun 21, 2006 00:23
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Hey guys- thanx for all the detailed and deep responses- nice and interesting discussion
Please don't get offended or anything- as I said I didn't come to say anything bad about anyone and I dunnot accuse anyone of anything. Just talking about things I felt in general here, and I think worth raising into concesness. No need to get all defensive on me. We have a saying about that in Hebrew about a burning hat and a thief, but it sounds dumb translated to English.
So, Deathposture- you don't have to defend yourself and nobody said anyone is getting paid, and Rah, I do write my own reviews- not track by track as I find this boring, but I give them a lot of time and thought- try reading.
Basilisk, I know your website too well, and I take good care to read all your remarks and reviews. Together with shahar's reviews I found them most helpful for buying music I end up liking |
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clown
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
97
Posts :
1777
Posted : Jun 21, 2006 02:59
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Cool topic indeed.. I am by far a pro in reviewing.. hell, even my vocabulary kinda sucks and is FAR from being indepth, however, i have always been the type to express my musical tastes and let people know about what "I" find good or bad and reviewing specific CD's gives me that chance. It also brings big smiles to the label people when they see the feedback and in some cases it gives life to a CD some would have not even noticed.
I do not take this seriously and i do not recieve as many cd's as, say, the great DP or profane, and frankly im quite happy because i don't have that much free time.
In my reviews i try to be as honest to the people and as respectful to the label as possible without putting too much on either side. I like to stay rather neutral because in the end its all about personal tastes. There are also some label's that i would never write a review for, like say that new nighttime Killargh trend. I would most probably bash the whole CD (much like the Nexus album).
In the end, i hope reviews help spread our music because as we all know, we are not even 1% of the music industry and we can use all the help we can get !!
happy reading and for those who didn't see them yet, my collection of reviews can be found HERE : (with the exception of the Nexus review lol)
http://rave.ca/reviews.php (unfortunatly, they are not sorted and there are a few other reviews from other people)
"VA - REWIRED" OUT NOW !! (techtrance invasion) ---> http://forum.isratrance.com/viewtopic.php/topic/86303/forum/9
http://psy.techno.fm <------- Jester Records's Internet Radio channel
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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sure_smoke_alot
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
6874
Posted : Jun 21, 2006 11:09
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Quote:
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On 2006-06-20 23:45, Bloodclot wrote:
Was waiting for one of these topics to come up soon. Actually most of the regular reviewers here are doing a super job at reviewing cd's. Most of the time while reading these reviews I see that there is a lot of depth expressed to which at times I don't understand. Maybe that is part of what shankar means when he says "they just dont get it". But the answer to that is pretty simple, music is an art and practically speaking an art can't really be judged. Every track will evoke different emotions for different people hence opinions like "I don't like that track' or 'That track was monsterous' do float around, but then that just shows how diverse our thoughts are! Well I guess you can't really strike all the pins down at a go when it comes to passing reviews with an art as such. I'd say each to his own.
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well said bro 
the rewies have really helped me filter in wot to buy n wot to skip till now the rewies esp. by some users have been spot on for me! |
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aNti-MattEr
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
27
Posted : Jun 21, 2006 17:13
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I would just like to thank people like pr0fane and DeathPosture for going to so much trouble to write a detailed and involved review for us to read. I find them a useful tool. Good on them for reviewing CDs before or just as they are released. They are sincere in their words.
aNti-MattEr
An anomaly within a possibility |
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***Sideffect***
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
281
Posted : Jun 22, 2006 03:14
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short reply on this one,
I had my to defend myself enough allready too like DP (agree with his reply) but on the belgian forum then,
I review what I like,
and there's one rule before I review an album,
I put it on my mp3 player for one week so that i at least have listened to it detailed with headphones 5 times,
I'm busy with goa for 8 years now and after listenig an album 5 times I can analyze it perfectly,
some albums are just very simple to analyze and you got the pattern and concept very quick,
other are more intillgent and you need to put the concept into persective and feel the story...
but that's not a problem,
I always say, don't like the review,
don't read it,
others will,
you can do it better ? do it
I will be happy to acknowledge your's is better and more sophisticated,
nobody is perfect....
grtz and have a good time all the time,
and don't bother critizen, you can't do good for everybody, lesson I learnd throught the past,
so I just close my eyes and focus on the people who enjoy...
but what I always notice on different forums those topics are opened by people who don't write reviews,
seems rather strange to me
ps: why start this topic in review section, this is not a review ???
suits perfect in general http://www.last.fm/user/LastFmKoen |
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Voice of All
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
762
Posted : Jun 28, 2006 15:27
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i almost have no problem with reading reviews of 'professional authors' more then that i found that is amazing to be able to get so much info on any release at this forum... do you know how many reviews we have at main trance forum in russia? they are like tears: 'rare and dry out very fast' and it is in russia place where many prjects came from and where trance nowaday is rather popular genre.
what wrong with those reviews? their authors have stucked in the genre? maybe... but it is no problem at all cause only when there are some people who able and ready to post reviews of many new and old different projects and releases the scene promote as well as it gets. i need those infos at least to find out what is interesting for me with my taste and what i need to set aside. just as easy...
so thanks again profane, deathposture, basilisk, clown, ***sideeffect*** and many other 'professinal reviewers that used to post reviews here and around
Spiritual guides are to practice and serve in ways that cultivate awareness, empathy, and wisdom. |
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