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Production cooperation, anybody interested ?
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knocz
Moderator
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Posted : Nov 8, 2011 06:35
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On 2011-11-07 22:57, TheDreamPanther wrote:
I don't know, i just can't make transitions from one part to another without sounding cheezy, and i lack a lot of skills in synthesis, i never have the right sounds, sometimes i think i should give up, but i can't...
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Here's a tip that will improve your skill in an easy, quick and FUN way:
Imagine your psy song as if if was a band and the composing players. Each player has an instrument and things he can do to it. You can be really intrinsicate (like a full-size orchestra), but in the beggining keep it simple. I'd probably go with this for a starter:
-Kick + bass
-Drums and perc
-Synth sound 1
-Synth sound 2
-Synth sound 3
And play with it. Play each section separate. Learn how to have fun, but playing over time and not a bunch of loops. You must realize that in a band each player has an instrument, he knows how to play it and how to manipulate the instrument and effects to achieve certain tones. You should set up each of the parts with according effects, of loops (like drum stuff, etc), some bass progressions and standar 4/4 kick for the kick+bass part, a synth with 8 knobs for you to tweak and explore for each path.
From here you can do many things with this, but after settling with a song structure (generally achieved with the kick+bass), you play the other instruments while recording. This really helps out with the passages, because you are actually playing the same instruments and making different sounds with them, making them evolve over time, and record the automations too.
After having these sections played, you can be a single effect/mixer guy, changing the volumes between the tracks and fkn everything up. Say on verse 1 synth1 as the main lead and synth2 is on the background,next comes verse 2 with synth3 in as main lead and synth 2 still in the background, then comes the chorus and synth2 bursts out as the main lead, etc. Here you have the chance to screw around with sends and the master bus channel, doing all those tape slicing effects and all.
0.02€
  Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz |
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dharmatronic
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
130
Posted : Nov 8, 2011 13:59
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Hi all
Very nice tips here... but I disagree with most of you. I consider (from my experience point of view, of course) that without contact with a real music project or without contact with people who do produce electronic music (doesn’t matter which genre) it will take loads and loads of time until you get the basic knowledge to go on with your own project. Why? Because you can’t simply figure out by listening how most of effects are executed, developed; I mean all reverb, delay, pan, bit reduce, pitch shift stuff (lift up and down), loads of reverse (reverve kick, reverse drum, etc), timing, audio cuts… and synthesis. you can always find stuff on internet and ask people… but it is not the same.
My suggestion is find someone close to learn (or school, short courses, whatever). Try to clone projects that you like (amateur stuff is always easier)… and don’t give. Finish it!
Good luck!!
always learning...
http://soundcloud.com/dharmatronic |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
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2822
Posted : Nov 8, 2011 17:10
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Yes...
When I was fortunate enough to meet Terrafractyl this past summer his biggest tip was that if you want to really push quickly into the world of electronic music production - find a partner.
Someone to bounce ideas off of, someone who's at or just above the level you are so that you can explore and figure things out together - share plugs with each other, synthesis ideas, etc.
However - this is not always possible. When I was living in rural pennsylvania there wasn't even anyone within 2 hours that I knew that *liked* electronic music, let alone produced it.
Thankfully the internet provided me with an amazing teacher courtesy of Tom Cosm's Introduction to Digital Audio Production series.
Is it ideal to have a partner/someone that you know and can sit down with? Sure. It's also ideal to have a bunch of hardware synths and a nice monitoring setup and an acoustically treated room - but these things are not at all necessary to get started and make good stuff 
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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knocz
Moderator
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1151
Posted : Nov 8, 2011 18:11
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Quote:
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On 2011-11-08 13:59, dharmatronic wrote:
Hi all
Very nice tips here... but I disagree with most of you. I consider (from my experience point of view, of course) that without contact with a real music project or without contact with people who do produce electronic music (doesn’t matter which genre) it will take loads and loads of time until you get the basic knowledge to go on with your own project. Why? Because you can’t simply figure out by listening how most of effects are executed, developed; I mean all reverb, delay, pan, bit reduce, pitch shift stuff (lift up and down), loads of reverse (reverve kick, reverse drum, etc), timing, audio cuts… and synthesis. you can always find stuff on internet and ask people… but it is not the same.
My suggestion is find someone close to learn (or school, short courses, whatever). Try to clone projects that you like (amateur stuff is always easier)… and don’t give. Finish it!
Good luck!!
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Yes, one of the best things would if you have a mentor: but then you will always be constrained by his knowledge.
Then you can have a production partner with an equal level as you: good luck finding anyone that fits this category, lives close enough to you, likes your music genre and want's to play with you (there's A LOT of snobs in amateur music making, with no humbleness while speaking of an abstract art such as music). Yes, it will help you both evolve in so many ways but it also will make you learn old and bad habits, and if neither of you know how to finish a track then you just might have to explore yourself's until you both get there 8and there is only one using the mouse at one time,so you aren't going full speed)
You can also get a production partner who know's less then you, which is always rewarding for both sides: but this situation tends to be way more advantageous for the pupil, as he will advance at a more rapid rate then the teacher.
These three situations are no always true, but they all need to be able to find someone else available (and if friend TheDreamPanther is here asking for a collab project then he probably can't find anyone in person).
And then you have the majority of amateur producers: they play alone. They learn alone. It's harder, but the stakes are much higher, and the amount of self tough successful musicians is astonishing. Well, in order to be able to manipulate the production as if it were an instrument requires to know the basics, but that's what this forum is for. As you said it's not the same learning in person or in a web site, but each has their way: I could never have as many producers giving me tips in person as I can online, I could never be able to get all these well known artists giving their feedback, and I would never be able to search through the history of conversations and tips once said. On the other hand, to have someone showing first hand how to do something can be a really quick way of knowing howto do that something.
Both ways have their advantages. I say do'em both, but if you can't find a partner then come to this forum.
Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
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Posted : Nov 8, 2011 18:20
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Quote:
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On 2011-11-07 22:53, willsanquil wrote:
If you can't finish a track, adding someone else into the mix is only going to complicate things. |
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I utterly, utterly disagree. When I can't finish a track myself (on those rare occasions when I start writing with the intention of doing the whole thing myself), finding a collaborator for it ensures that it gets completed.
Quote:
| The trick to finishing tracks is to finish the freakin tracks. |
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I utterly, utterly agree.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
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8087
Posted : Nov 8, 2011 18:53
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the hard thing is to make music like the others artists your compare your music to...it s formating and not exploiting your creativity.
if you make you own thing you will have way less trouble to finish tunes even if it s not psytrance..it could be totally crazy music..ambient...what ever come out... |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
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2822
Posted : Nov 8, 2011 18:58
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I agree with your disagreement *if you have a decent amount of experience in writing tracks*
It's one thing if you've been producing for a while, but you get stuck on a track and you need some outside perspective on what's missing. I agree that in that scenario someone else is very helpful...
However, if I was still working on finishing my very first track and I was struggling with that concept...IDK, I wouldn't bring someone else in at that level of my development.
I'm not an expert by any means though
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
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5380
Posted : Nov 8, 2011 20:05
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specymen
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
119
Posted : Nov 8, 2011 20:26
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when you say you can't finish a track, where are you ?
at the start  the middle, or close to the end ?
if it's the start or the middle, you need time to learn how to make tracks: picking tips on the net or from somebody, like all of us have done, and you now !
if it's the end, it's a matter of ideas and there's no clue except trying and trying again different ideas untill it's ok.
it takes time if you want good music with psy inside.
try all advices you collect and be confident. there is nothing you can't do.
and also try to feel, don't think too much when stucked. use chance |
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jekvan
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
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Posted : Nov 8, 2011 20:43
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When I started over a year ago,by some strange coinsidence three folks of us got this copy of flstudio at the same time.It was heaps of fun siting at friends house talking about bullshit and making "music" in flustdio,I honestly miss those times.It felt much less "work" and much more fun.
By circumstances of life I unfortunately lost contact with one of them and the other stopped taking it serious,so I moved on learning all by myself.
All I can say on this that it can work in the beggining only if the other person is serious and motivated as yourself,and you both do not bullshit each other trying to proove you know more ,and in the end confusing each other even more.And you both take your time apart studying and experimenting by yourself.
At this stage it sounds as if you need teacher more then a partner.
As for finishing tracks,I was junior writer in my high school,and I can say that feelings between book writting and track writting are similar,you go through all hell of emotions because it is darn hard sometimes to finish something when it starts to get complicated.The joy of writing several bars of something awesome is replaced by fear of loosing that awesomeness as you continue and write more and more.Things are getting more comlicated and bigger in your prject,and you start to display different ranges of emotions ,from joy to depression.
That is why autors sometimes drain themself dry after writting books and experience creator blockage.Life is tough,and if you wanna be somebody,you do sometimes have to swim again your personal suffery to create something,and in this case finish tracks.
Force yourself to finish stuff,no matter how hard it is,otherwise the road is to be a professional loop maker.
From all the things I lost,that sandwitch cost me most :)
http://soundcloud.com/jekvan |
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TheDreamPanther
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
9
Posted : Nov 9, 2011 03:10
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A lot of you guys have some really good points, each one is right about some aspect, i'm starting to notice some things i'm doing wrong, i guess for now all i can do is just keep at a single track until it's done |
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Intertia
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
69
Posted : Nov 9, 2011 06:44
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From my point of view, tracks should just evolve naturally, when you start thinking too much it takes the fun of it. Might as well move on to something else.
Here's some good tips from Yod Onsen aka Scorb.
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