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Producing on headphones
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Xetni
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
68
Posted : Dec 20, 2012 22:13:03
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Last night I was working on kick & bass with headphones and I thought it sounded good. When I turned on speakers in the morning, kick was boxy, almost no low end and the entire mix was all over the place.
I use Superlux HD668B, and have them for a long time and know them well. But , I believe they are not "honest" enough as commercial mixes sound a bit boomy on them, so when I try to mix to what sounds good on them, it ends up very empty in the 60-150 Hz.
Speakers are another story, good monitors Prodipe Ribbon 8, but the room is L shaped bedroom and only 1 place has decent stereo imaging, but in that place the frequency response has huge dips everything below 60 Hz and peak at 110 Hz, low end is very poor on all songs and mixing kick & bass in this room and place is impossible on speakers (I tried many times in the past year).
What would you do? No money for room treatment now and am moving soon anyway, but I wont have own place until many years (to use speakers) so I have to either give up producing or use headphones.
Is it possible to mix the low end on headphones and is it just a matter of practicing more? Or are better headphones necessary? |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Dec 20, 2012 22:21
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when you have bad monitoring condition, the aim is to not make things sound good , but to make things sound like something that have good translation. if you mix making things sound great to you wihtout any reference the mix will be probablly all over the place, it work only in good rooms.
i mean you need reference to adapt and get used imo a/b vs some tunes you know translate well and make yours balanced the same and then slowly you will know how to compensate and get the sound to translate after few trial and errors.
about the low end on headphone if it s decent if should be possible to adapt and get good translation |
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Agorit
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
114
Posted : Dec 21, 2012 06:43
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imho , if you have a bad room, the mixes tend to sound bad in other speakers. let's imagine that you have a room with one or more dimensions of 2.4 m.
probably you will have problems in the frequency about 70Hz, 140Hz (modes)etc. .. if it peaks, you will tend to put less frequently in the mix in this region. when you hear in another sound system, you will hear problems. Its good to know how your room sounds, know your monitors, and knowing your headphone.
I think its normal when mix in headphone and when he goes to monitors sound is not the same way. For most that is balanced, the room will change your perception.
If you know very well your headphone, imho, yes you can get good mixes. But you have to have knowledge too, because you have some problems like lack of perception of soundstage, apply effects like reverb and delay are harmed.
Anyway, if you know what you're doing and aware, no doubt you can make a good sound in your headphones.
I advise you to do your mix and talk to an engineer(or a friend if you have) who has a good system. it will give counties. save your beer money and pay that engineer to give you advice as your mix sounds
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Dec 21, 2012 12:32
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Apparently there is a new generation of people that have heaphones as an only option when mixing.
I can never create and mix kick and bass on headphones, it always sounds wrong on my monitors.
Each to their own, I think that if you train your ears to what you have, you can get a good mix out of headphones.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Dec 21, 2012 13:44
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ath m50 for low end ,akg 701 is also really good cans for mixing but the deep low i would say under 50hz can be a bite more tricky..i got a few suprise..with the tune of some kicks that were too low ,while the ath m50 feel good down there.
with checking translation on a other system it should be no problem to adapt anyway.
different sound but both great cans i can recomend |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Dec 21, 2012 13:54
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I'll have to right music on my Pioner HDJ-1500 for a month in Goa.
They are good enough to right music on, I'll just mixdown the tracks in my studio when I am back in Athens.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Alien Bug
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
682
Posted : Dec 21, 2012 15:30
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the best way is to switching between monitors and headphones. a lot of people listen music on headphones right now so its good to checking it on both.
my way: i make something on headphones the i check on monitors. then im back to headphones and im working as long as i get good sound on both.
ps i still make music mostly on headphones but i left my 'poor sounding bass' when i changed my soundcard. now on same monitor/headphones setup i hear a lot more of low end. so sometimes its not only a loudspeaker question 
http://www.beatport.com/release/cross-the-atoms/1042450
http://soundcloud.com/alien-bug
http://www.facebook.com/ali3nBug |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Dec 21, 2012 16:36
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i do same as alien bug , maybe 1 or 2 months i use more my headphone and now i rarely get surpise using them that way in my shitty room.
i think soon i may be abble to master on cans with few more months of use.. not sure will have to do more test once i m really used to the cans.
that way with switching on monitors really show you for what the cans need to be compensated ,then after it become natural. i would say for mine i can let a bit too much mud in the low mids with the cans, that was the major issu and suprise i got in the begining, monitors show these problem easier, it jump more at you.. also really need to work with reference or everyhting can be off if i m in a bad day, on monitors it s not needed as much to a/b.
also use way more frequency analyzer now i can t trust much monitoring but sound should be always trusted more than what eyes see ,by using a reference and listening , with frequency analizer on top to try to avoid the much mistake as possible |
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Taisto
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
252
Posted : Dec 22, 2012 13:51
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I'v been notice that mixing with headphones can be tricky if you playing them too loud. The differences in dynamic scale are hard to judge in loud volume from headphones. So if you need to mix with headphones you need to do it in low volume (it means very low) to get the right look of that whole audioimage.
Ones you learn to do that it will be very easy to judge the sound from good headphones and you will hear how different elements of the track can be easily setted up wrong in higher volumes, normally too loud eating others room, when you are wondering how things sound so different from monitors..
But anyway you need flattest headphones as possible also so they could help on monitoring sound right way.. or by knowing yours very well and how they act.
Remember that normally headphones are like hi-fi systems that are not designed flat for monitoring sound but like other hi-fi systems shaping the sound more nice, however they are suiting very well on mastering specially, and mixing too if you just know what you are after.
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woodster77
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
119
Posts :
1733
Posted : Dec 22, 2012 16:57
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i got these last week
and ALL my beats are KRUNKIN
what can i say
Men want to be me ,and women want to be with me |
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PsiloCybian
Mammal Footwork
Started Topics :
92
Posts :
557
Posted : Dec 22, 2012 17:41
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Since im always on the move my Headphones (ByerDynamic DT 770Pro) are my mains for producing. Once a month i get back home and then i can check the music on my Adams. I can work on them but i always have to fixs stuff on monitors 
www.psilocybian.com / www.facebook.com/psilocybian |
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jonsta
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
313
Posted : Dec 22, 2012 22:26
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This kind of topic will always exist. I think most people get confused because they read some 'pros' telling them you can't get a good mix using headphones, and then when you do use headphones things won't sound right but that's just a psychological effect. I've been mixing with headphones for many years, I have 3 pairs and I have no issues getting things to sound right. I guess it's just a matter of trusting your ears and knowing your instruments and EQs. I usually load a saw wave from a synth I know and just by adding HP and LP filters I can get a sense of what the headphones sound like. Also play with panning or fast delay with ping pong to get a sense of it's stereo image.
Free album out now:
http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/flembaz-tripalle
http://soundcloud.com/flembaz |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Dec 23, 2012 15:05
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lot of today electronic music is produced on headphone, and some with very good production quality.
in the end it all depend the room what will be the best option.. in a good room you don't really need cans even if it s always a + , good cans show some details better than monitors and vice et verca both have strengh ...
a good trick, it might depend the headphone if it work well but is to switch a lot to mono when mixing on headphone , when adjusting track levels and checking if mix right stuff like this and to use a reference offcourse |
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Alien Bug
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
682
Posted : Dec 23, 2012 16:46
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Disciple
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
85
Posted : Dec 23, 2012 17:51
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People often only think about headphones, but what is needed as well for a balanced sound and dependable soundstage is a good quality DAC. Most of the DAC's you get built into cheap sound cards are terrible, and even some high end audio interfaces have low end DAC's and headphone preamps. I recommend coupling a good pair of headphones with a good dac.
The HRT Music streamer 2+ I have is fantastic and makes headphone mixing and monitoring much more tolerable.
http://highresolutiontechnologies.com/music-streamer-ii-plus
http://highresolutiontechnologies.com/headstreamer
Well worth a look at:) |
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