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problem with low freqs on synth lines
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 10, 2007 21:07
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Thanks,very intresting |
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piko_bianko
Oxya
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57
Posts :
974
Posted : Nov 11, 2007 00:42
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i do sometimes use 2 eq's BOTH with lowcut at almost the same frequency...
or... i double/triple the lowcut on the same eq instance.
(...ok, a lie.. never triple  )
 extreme |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
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10
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875
Posted : Nov 11, 2007 02:28
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I'd never use hard compression on anything til I've thoroughly checked the bottom end. I have my output running through a hardware mixer so I turn down the highs and mids, then turn up the bass and listen carefully.
If you hear something you dont like, attach more filters. Or like Colin says the Q6 is pretty good. Though sometimes the Q4 will do the trick. Not much difference really. |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Nov 11, 2007 03:14
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Seppa
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
485
Posted : Nov 11, 2007 11:40
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On 2007-11-09 20:11, Seamoon wrote:
hey guys,
i have noticed the following problem:
For my Synth-Lines i always add first an EQ with lowcut about 300hz and highcut about 5kHz, after that i always add a limiter (L1 from waves).
Now the problem is the eq eleminates all the low freq very well, but trough the limiting process there will add some very low freqs again.
do you know how i can solve this??
wehen i put the limiter first and then the eq it cut all low freqs very well but then the peaks start getting out of controll.
Any tipps??
Much greetz Simon
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2 things you can do:
use a 36db hipass filter... and use a more suttle compression.
a 36 db hipass should allow you to set your cut lower while attenuating more the unwanted frequencies..
a compression with a lower ratio and slower attack will prevent all these low frequencies from coming back while still cutting some unwanted transient.
That is if you actually need any compression.
if you want something suttle that does the job for you get the la2a. There is a plugin version by uad... your not likely to get the warms and distortion added by booting the amp but you will get a very la2a like style of compression .
As for the eq... cambridge from uad has a 36db/ocatve high and low cut.
really good stuff...
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Nabla jpr
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 13, 2007 19:27
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just thinking ...maybe the problem is simpler and so the solution
as we change the dynamic (with limiting and compression) so changes the distance between the the highest and lowest...that means that you can hear the lowest part more than before limiting(limiting brings out the soft part)...and although you eq, there is still some part(low freq) left...so IMO the solution is apart from others, don't use too much limiter |
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frambonas
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 18, 2007 18:33
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On 2007-11-13 19:27, Nabla jpr wrote:
just thinking ...maybe the problem is simpler and so the solution
as we change the dynamic (with limiting and compression) so changes the distance between the the highest and lowest...that means that you can hear the lowest part more than before limiting(limiting brings out the soft part)...and although you eq, there is still some part(low freq) left...so IMO the solution is apart from others, don't use too much limiter
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I think so too, maybe the make up gain makes the low go higher in volume, en the high go lower.
And if you use the UAD eq, then you are sure the low is gone with high-pass filter. |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 18, 2007 21:40
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Colin - I reckon you are right.
We are all aware of the clicks that fast compression can introduce - and yet a compressor does not produce sound in itself - the clicks are being produced by creating a new waveform through rapidly changing volume. There is no reason to think that low frequency distortion should not occur too.
But then you know how much I like to bend the rules with descriptions.
However, compression by nature of what it does will also make the slope of the cut shallower... I think???
Thinking that a slope can be measured in dB/Octave. So if you reduce the dynamic range of the content, then that dB/Octave slope will be reduced too.
My choice would be EQ, compress and EQ again. Or, if it needs that much treatment, just to fit it in the mix, start again. I'd also say that things like Chorus and Phaser effects can considerably affect the bass in your signal - I would put EQ after them, if at all possible. .
http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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Seamoon
Seamoon
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23
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314
Posted : Nov 18, 2007 22:20
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thanx for the help guys.
i ended up with eq after comprssing/limiting if the limiter produces new low freqs. |
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 19, 2007 00:53
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On 2007-11-11 03:14, Colin OOOD wrote:
What I wrote above about the similarity between compression/limiting and AM is only a hypothesis, by the way. Maybe there's a geek out there who can tell me if I'm talking out of my arse or not 
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Someone called?
Basically, it is in the way the same as amplitude modulation, but think of it like this - you compress a sine wave, and it becomes "flatter" on it's peaks, creating overtones - you can (in this case) think of a square wave as a sine wave with a limiter - when the threshold at -100db, and the volume is raised (example of compression adding high frequencies). The change is not drastic in most compressions (an extra 2-3db won't really change the sound much) - but with "rich" sounds, like white noise, removing a low frequency creates something in the wave which looks similar to a DC shift which changes at at that frequency - the moment you compress it, that shift is at least partially removed, and we get the low frequency back again (example of compression creating low frequencies).
Naturally, a limiter will add FAR more frequencies at a much higher volume than compression. Think of a limiter as mild distortion that way, and you get the point.
There is a mathematical side for this - but we won't be getting into fourier transformations at this moment and how the division into different frequencies of a sound changes with amplitude. That's quite a heavy abstraction on sound structure, useless for practical reasons - working by what sounds right with the right experience gives you an intuitive grasp of the subtleties just the same.
Quote:
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On 2007-11-13 19:27, Nabla jpr wrote:
just thinking ...maybe the problem is simpler and so the solution
as we change the dynamic (with limiting and compression) so changes the distance between the the highest and lowest...that means that you can hear the lowest part more than before limiting(limiting brings out the soft part)...and although you eq, there is still some part(low freq) left...so IMO the solution is apart from others, don't use too much limiter
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Incorrect view of it - a 40Hz sine wave is still a 40Hz sine wave no matter what volume. A highpass eliminates these frequencies nearly completely. Compression though creates it's own changes in the sound. Different than most other amplitude effects - compression is NOT reversible. Once you compress a sound, it gains fundamentally different properties, and even if you use an expander with the exact opposite setting you will NOT get the exact same sound - you will get something close, but that's it. Multicompressors are even more of a bitch that way. Overusing these will basically ruin your chance of getting an acoustic feel to anything you do - not a problem when making full-on I know, but the moment you try making your percussion work with an acoustic guitar, these things will backfire... much easier to just select sounds that fit well together.
My two geeky cents. |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 19, 2007 01:29
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hehe nice to see someone else twisting up the DSP books
I'm not sure that Nabla jpr meant distance in terms of freqs, but possibly dynamic range ie (highest and lowest volumes)? And especially with limiter, that does occur - a reason why its important to consider how you are changing your input/output crest ie Crest Factor = Peak Level/RMS Level
Possibly. 
.
http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
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875
Posted : Nov 19, 2007 03:08
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I hear a lot of people saying:
EQ > Compress > Re-EQ
Does this mean add an EQ unit after compression, or the way I do it when you just alter the first EQ after adding compression? |
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brasirc
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 19, 2007 04:14
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im pretty sure it means to put a new EQ after the compressor on the chain...
un-fucking-believable |
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Nabla jpr
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 19, 2007 15:41
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Kaz, I agree on everything you said..but in your example the sine wave doesn't contain harmonics..just single tone..
what I was saying is this if you compress/limit a part of the wave where there are harmonics, as you said, there are more harmonics(which are higher then the fundamental) created by the process..now you change the relative distance(volume) between the highest and lowest part of the wave and if it happens that the part that you didn't limit or compress contain low frequencies, this lower distance can make low freq(the part of the wave you didn't limit) more audible.
I don't know if I make myself clear..but basicly I'm saying that it's difficult to think about the effect in the time domain without thinking the effect on the frequency domain and viceversa
Nabla jpr |
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 19, 2007 23:00
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Quote:
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On 2007-11-19 15:41, Nabla jpr wrote:
but in your example the sine wave doesn't contain harmonics.
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I tried to give an example of a case in which a low frequency is added. The point is still valid with more than one frequency, I was just trying to get around the mathematics of it by staying with something very easy to visualize. |
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