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practical compression
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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Posted : Sep 7, 2005 09:42
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Compression still eludes me, I know that compression is a subtle effect, but I only know this coz I read it, & as much as I follow tutorials & books, I can never really b sure that the effect being described is what Im achieving. im sure that studio guys learn this by intimate contact wif experienced engineers, but to learn this from books is like cooking from recipes without any training.
Could som1 please post a couple of audio examples of b4 & after correct commpression, & the intended use of the compression in that, and an explanation y its necessary?
Basically a good hands on explanation.
Thanku Thanku Thankyou!
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The Kaa
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Sep 7, 2005 10:07
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Good subject, I was asking myself the same question lately!
I think thats this part of the sound process needs indeed some good knowledge of the music and the machines
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missing-link
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Sep 7, 2005 11:20
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In basic terms compression is a dynamic it fits in the same bracket as EQ and Gates, a compressors main job is to even out peaks and lows in a wave form…
Say you get a singer you are recording and the way she sings is quieter in some parts and louder in other…
The compressor will try to bring the loud and quiet bits closer together so that there is less dynamic range between the two…
Usually this means the overall sound will get quieter but then you use the make up gain to bring it back up to a suitable level…
Now of the top of my head… the first button you find on a compressor is the
1 threshold … this dictated when the compressor kicks in and begins to work… as the sound you compress will have a certain volume you set the threshold to work at this level…
2 Ratio… this is the amount of compression used.. 1:1….2:1 and so on… so 2:1 this means for every 2 decibel only 1 gets though 4:1 every 4 decibels one gets through and so on …
This is why the sound gets quieter…
3 make up gain this bring the sound back up to desired volume..
This is a basic view I hope this helps guys….
Too much comp makes things sound squashed and boxy and to much make up gain brings up floor noise so be careful…
Manny
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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Posted : Sep 7, 2005 12:27
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Missing link u see I understand all this, much more precisely than uve explained since I already have played with multiple band compressors, etc, etc, etc & know the theory backwards. The problem I have is more like knowing how much is too much, & how much sounds good in the first place if its a (damn-subtle sometimes) subtle effect? where in a practical mix is it necessary or unnecessary.
Every1 says 2 use it & its important(some say 2 avoid it)But practically what difference does it make? Examples please, Im sure that this approach is missing from this forum coz every1 is asking the compression question again & again, but the prob is its not really being answered, so its asked again. |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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Posted : Sep 7, 2005 12:31
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Oh yes Im not really interested in compression from a vocal or guitar point of view, I can understand that the dynamic range is larger & needs 2 b reduced, but the problem is subjective descriptions that engineers use like "pulls through a mix better", cant think of any others, but its this with respect 2 psytrance subbasses & kicks I am asking about. |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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Posted : Sep 7, 2005 12:34
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sorry about the bad descriptions, but I dont really know what terms r used so asking a clear question that would have a clear answer is difficult. Could som1 empathise wif me & sorta point out their first most important experiences where compression made a hell of a difference & was indispensable.
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texmex
Started Topics :
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189
Posted : Sep 7, 2005 12:52
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My advice is that if you can't see and hear the effects of compressor unless used in extreme ways, don't use it. You'll just waste hours tweaking compressors and trying to find a sound that has the punch but you might not really know what you're doing. It will just get in the way of the process of creating music.
Compressors are more useful for actual instruments such as guitars, bass, drums and vocals where the dynamics are varying much (as missing-link already said). In the digital world you can adjust the envelopes of synths instead of using compressors to do it.
So, my advice. Leave the compressors to the mixing and mastering stage and use envelopes to affect the dynamics of single sound and velocity/channel volume to adjust sounds relative to each other. |
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TRapp
Inactive User
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271
Posted : Sep 7, 2005 13:19
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hey bukboy....
only one thing to do....if u wana learn compression practically/.....
PLAY AROUND WITH IT....for hours....
you should also sometimes think of compression as a feeling.... its a partly psycho-acoustic effect ....
also with your research, find out about the decibal system and how decibal addition etc is done....remember it is a logarithmic scale....
also when you mess around with compression...use it on percussion to try and learn whats going on.....and yes it can be a subtle effect, but it can also be very unsubtle....its just about knowing what u are doing...
so yea only advice really...just experiment and play....it will come to you the more you get to know it/...thats the only way 
I dont do the drugs....I AM the drugs |
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TuK
TuK
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228
Posted : Sep 7, 2005 13:26
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i never use compression as an effect,
usually what i do is after bouncing to audio i first compress the track untill the track sounds "solid"
without eq and then eq the track, its importent because a lot of times with out compression you have to cut out alot of frequencies and the track sounds thinner but if you eq after commpresion you can leave frequencies that otherwise you would cut .
i know it isnt what your after but thats how i use the compressor |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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Posted : Sep 7, 2005 13:52
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Im starting 2 get selfconscious about my replies, do I sound arrogant?
TexMex - Im fine with envelopes, its mixing & mastering compression wif psytrance Im curious about. The waves tutorials include C1 in every insert by default.Y?
Trapp - Hello fellow South African.
The trouble with playing around is that u never really know whether uve arrived @ what u want, & whether what u did was necessary, or whether ur completely missing the point & wasting ur time.What I suspect is that engineers use compression for purposes of specific tricks, & they know what & how to do these tricks coz sum1 has showed them(how many of u guys have learnt intricate compression only from playing around & books?), or they designed compressors with the effect in mind. If I dont know whats the things purpose then how do I play around towards it?
U say the purpose is a feeling & psychoacoustic effect, please show me what feeling & psychoacoustic effect is.(I dont mean 2 sound arrogant especially since ur the only 1 of these chaps that is within 1000 kms of me.)
djTuk - thanks, this is a lot closer 2 what I need. specific uses. to make a reasonably uniform spectrum in the track (I think thats what u mean by solid) Do you compress a single instrument track? does the compression remove frequencies in ur use or make them uniform? |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
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Posted : Sep 7, 2005 14:58
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there is a philosophical school of thought which goes - if you dont have clear thoughts on some concept, then u dont really know that concept. Im not trying to b Ahole really, Im just trying 2 understand by clarifying my thoughts, please dont c me as belligerent.
Thanks |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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Posted : Sep 7, 2005 15:18
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by the by I do have an audiophile hifi which has a very flat response, & Im sure is a decent monitor, & after playing around wif compression for months I dont see overwhelming benefits.Im probably a moron, but I dont see y kick + base finds compression indispensible. Ive looked @ the deedra (I think) track with "altitude 1600" in a wav editor & it looks like the 2nd 16th beat bass sound is mixing wif the kick that is still playing, whereas the 3rd & 4th 16th beat bass notes r fine.
Obviously theyre not using compression, so then if such an awesome track doesnt use compress, then Y is it so reccomended? Y Y Y  |
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missing-link
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Sep 7, 2005 15:59
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Ok … a compressor can be used to achieve a number of things in the mix, you ca create punch in percussions by setting a fast attack … if you have a break beaty break down you can set a slow release on your bass drum to give it a little sustain… The Release sets how long it takes for the compressor's gain to come back up to normal once the input signal has fallen back below the Threshold. If the release time is too fast, the signal level may 'pump'
These things are all usefully when mixing for creative reasons… if you are looking to master a track… the best way to describe it… is you use compression to fill the sound spectrum and give your track presence…
Bounce track you have made with no compression and then listen to a cd it will be louder… …
If you have difficulty hearing what the compressor is doing, then I don’t know what to suggest really it could be the compressor you are using or maybe the monitors I cannot say…. .. try putting a spectral analyser on the out put of your track and then play with the compressor on the individual track the visual representation on the analyser might help you understand what is happening and what it is you are actually trying to achieve…
hope this helps |
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Sep 7, 2005 17:50
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You can use a compressor to colour your sounds, to decrease dynamic range, or to add groove to something. If you want to learn how to use it you should start from a good starting point:
attack: fast
release: fast
treshold: low (so it's always on)
ratio: high
Just put a compressor with these settings on a loop of audio and then:
slow down the attack until the right amount of initial transients of the loop peak through (in hi-hats this would be the initial "tick").
slow down the release until the loop starts to "breathe" and "groove" just right.
then take up the treshold until you get the right amount of the effect (most often this is when the compressor isn't constanly working).
finally take down the ratio until the compressor sounds just right.
If you can't hear what a compressor does, or don't know why you should use it, don't use it. Only use it if you have a clear goal or a real problem to solve. Some psytrance producers don't use any compression and leave it to the mastering engineer. This is sometimes a good idea, because compression ratios multiply: if you compress your bass with a ratio of 1:8 and the mastering engineer uses a ratio of 1:4 you end up with a compression ratio of 1:32 on your bass. You'll probably hear that, and it won't sound sweet |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Sep 7, 2005 19:20
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