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Platipus is dead!
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
155
Posts :
2035
Posted : Nov 23, 2010 11:22
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Don't get me wrong, Alexander. I'm not whining and I'm not arguing with your views and I always follow your links and read carefully what you write, exactly because of what you stated. I like change, it brings good and bad. That is the world. I'm merely observing, and I have access to a lot of the facts.
And yes, going to see a show of an artist is an excellent way to support, if possible. Even writing a review about his release or spreading it via your networks is some sort of help.
As for bookings- money is going down too. The name of the game is exposure. Since exposure for new artists cannot come from releasing music, they try to gain it more by playing somehow. The competition is fierce and again artists find themselves spending their time in booking politics and chasing gigs in FB etc., instead of in the studio, making better music. New artists cannot afford a real booking agent because they can't supply him with decent fees. And we're stuck in this loop again with no way out for most.
Just show me new artists that became big headliners in parties and fests around the world in the last 3 years- and I'm not only talking about psytrance, which is kind of dying anyway. Very few, if any. The people who play most are big names from the past, when it was possible to become a big name. A lot of those don't release decent music for years, or no music at all (someone said Hallucinogen?). Others that play are the good politicians, the ones who instead of spending their time in the studio or perfecting their knowledge in music or control of their DJ case to give the crowd a better experience, spend their time licking ass to the organizers and making connections.
BTW, it's the same in "big" scenes- just check it- the only ones really filling stadiums are mostly the elderly playing music from the past, and some big money pop products. There is no model, it crushed. It's almost impossible to get "big" (within any scene). It just almost impossible to support music all the way.
It's the Internet- it bring width and breadth and takes away depth- maybe that's just the way our world goes right now.
Let's see what happens...
Gotta be interesting, that's for sure.
But me, I try to support the music I like, if I want more of it. It's very easy, really... Just takes some caring.
  ---------------------------------------------
"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Nov 23, 2010 12:38
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I've given up in this scene. Why? Because:
1. No one bother to support my music (unless it's free - more than approx. 70.000 downloaded it last year - One person paid Euro 5 in support)
2. No one bother to give me bookings unless I play for free or insulting fees while Big names (Many who haven't taken one step forward in years) next to me get the full star treatment - also payment-wise. No one offer me a DJ gig even though I am a very experienced DJ.
I've spent countless hours promoting my name to 100's of organizers - Maybe 3 bothered to answer back. Result one small gig with a laughable fee. Result = Endless spam from those 100's of organizers.
Hasta La Vista Baby. It was fun while it lasted.
Now I rather make music for fun when I got the time (sadly not often anymore) as I can not afford to sit in my studio all day simply because I need to concentrate on my full-time day job.
www.beatagency.dk |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Nov 23, 2010 16:16
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I don’t know why all this hardship is such a surprise to some people. It’s especially baffling to hear an established artist to complain about it over and over in every thread. You’d think an insider might have a better understanding of what’s going on.
Arts have always been a tournament activity: a thousand contestants enter, one shines in the end, others lick wounds or get buried. Sometimes the tournaments are fair, more often they are rigged. Music is no different in this regard from other art forms. Go to a restaurant in a large metropolitan city like NYC or Chicago (probably more so in LA, but I haven’t been there yet) and witness all the artists, musicians and actors busting their asses for barely the minimum wage. Of course, when we watch an American Idol rise from nowhere to stardom in a matter of 3-4 months, somehow there is this illusion there that everybody can do it. Just like when we read about some poor schmuck working three jobs, going to school in the evening and then making a billion-dollar invention, we tend to fantasize that anybody can do that. Just work hard and keep your faith, right? Wrong. I’ve seen geeks and I’ve seen successful people (meaning people who made it to where they wanted to be) – and there is very little overlap between those two groups. Because winning a tournament is not as much about your skills and dedication to your work as it is about being in the right place at the right time and, most importantly, next to the right people.
So, the trend of established dinosaurs hogging the stage, while new or “minor” artists produce their art in short breaks between their waitressing “gigs”, is not about Internet piracy, state of the economy or shifts in business models: it’s the way it’s always been and it’s the way it always will be. “But sales were so good Back When!...” Yeah, and NASDAQ was going up 20% a year too. No clever business model is going to bring that back. And we’re all still paying for those wonder days, BTW.
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Stregone
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
63
Posts :
1252
Posted : Nov 23, 2010 16:31
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Quote:
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On 2010-11-23 16:16, Maine Coon wrote:
I don’t know why all this hardship is such a surprise to some people. It’s especially baffling to hear an established artist to complain about it over and over in every thread. You’d think an insider might have a better understanding of what’s going on.
Arts have always been a tournament activity: a thousand contestants enter, one shines in the end, others lick wounds or get buried. Sometimes the tournaments are fair, more often they are rigged. Music is no different in this regard from other art forms. Go to a restaurant in a large metropolitan city like NYC or Chicago (probably more so in LA, but I haven’t been there yet) and witness all the artists, musicians and actors busting their asses for barely the minimum wage. Of course, when we watch an American Idol rise from nowhere to stardom in a matter of 3-4 months, somehow there is this illusion there that everybody can do it. Just like when we read about some poor schmuck working three jobs, going to school in the evening and then making a billion-dollar invention, we tend to fantasize that anybody can do that. Just work hard and keep your faith, right? Wrong. I’ve seen geeks and I’ve seen successful people (meaning people who made it to where they wanted to be) – and there is very little overlap between those two groups. Because winning a tournament is not as much about your skills and dedication to your work as it is about being in the right place at the right time and, most importantly, next to the right people.
So, the trend of established dinosaurs hogging the stage while new or “minor” artists produce their art in short breaks between their waitressing “gigs” is not about Internet piracy, state of the economy or shifts in business models: it’s the way it’s always been and it’s the way it always will be. “But sales were so good Back When!...” Yeah, and NASDAQ was going up 20% a year too. No clever business model is going to bring that back. And we’re all still paying for those wonder days, BTW.
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fully agree!
Artists never had their life easy when it camed about money... except for the few who earned great succes....
What was wrong in the past 30 years was the HUGE money the music business has made...
I'm just happy if all the modern music and movies industry die... when they won't be there anymore, I think we will finally have a normalization of the situation, we are humans, we like the art, the music, the partys... and for sure people will pay if there no other way, but why pay so much for a cd, or for a movie... when you know that most part of the profit will go to the actionaries of the MAJORS...
Artists always had a lot of trouble to get known and to live out of their art.... ALWAYS.... even when the cd sales were much better, there was only a few % of the artists who earned big money, the others had to makes almost free concerts, self promotion, live with few $$, makes side jobs etc etc...
I'm sure that great artists of nowadays wil, find the ways to capitalize their art... and I'm already seeing this happening in many scene.... probably the psy scene is a downgoing scene... so is harder to do it, but who knows maybe we'll see a huge comeback!
We are in fast changing times, I hope we'll see something better in the futur 
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Nov 23, 2010 18:33
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On 2010-11-23 12:38, Beat Agency wrote:
...while Big names (Many who haven't taken one step forward in years) next to me get the full star treatment...
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This just motivates me to work harder on my music and make the performance more memorable and special, instead of leaving the scene.
But yes - pisses you off when you see an oldie playing from CDs (without a hint of mixing) get paid 5 times more than you do, when you are actually making a live set.
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Nov 23, 2010 18:53
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^
Yeah, what about a tenured professor doing nothing all day until he turns 80, while a young talented scientist skips from one postdoc position to another in some delusional hope of joining the faculty and conducting his own research some day?
What about towns (and huge cities) where the same Mayor gets reelected for 25-30 years, while people who actually care about the future of the city keep bringing coffee to county clerks?
What about descendants of the Robber Barons living lavishly on their grandpas’ loot, while 95% of innovative start-up businesses go belly up in the first 2 years?
The old and the established always enjoyed privileges and it’s not going to change any time soon. But then again, some postdocs do become faculty members, some outsiders do win elections and some seemingly hopeless start-ups do become transnational corporations. On the other hand, I’ve seen tenured professors that are more productive (and forward thinking too) than the rest of their Department together. I’ve seen Mayors that are basically irreplaceable. And I’ve seen corporate behemoths that are simply better at what they do than their mom-and-pop competitors. Goes both ways, I guess.
It all has very little to do with the specifics of this genre or this industry. That’s just how the world works in general. What’s so surprising then?
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rich
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
Posts :
2184
Posted : Nov 23, 2010 21:17
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I'm always surprised when I hear of new rnb/pop albums going platinum these days, in contrast to the crying from record industry folk. Obviously not everyone is pirating. There's some demographic out there that's still buying music.
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Nov 23, 2010 21:27
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Dear RICH a cd goes platinum not based on its ACTUAL SALES (meaning cds that have been purchased by people) but on its STORE SALES (meaning cds that have been delivered from the label/distribution to the stores).
For example if i release a cd today and my label is lets say Virgin and they distribute 1 million copies to their stores then the cd is listed as having sold 1 million copies. The copies might get sold in ten years time or might never get sold but this is another story.
In my country Greece for example (where nobody buys music anymore) some greek pop cds are being certified for 50-100 thousand copies with those copies gathering dust on the shelves of the music stores and getting recycled after 4-5 years when they are useless.
The same takes place in the psy trance scene,when i used to release cds under Exposure Productions i said for example that the debut Wizzy Noise album Sabotage Part 1 sold 3000 copies because i had sold these cds to the stores (psyshop,saikosounds,etc etc) but these cds were not sold to actual people and were still there for sale but for me the label my sales were 3000 copies. Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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rich
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
Posts :
2184
Posted : Nov 23, 2010 21:57
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Thanks Detox. I had a feeling that was the case as I was typing that.
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mk47
Inactive User
Started Topics :
118
Posts :
4444
Posted : Nov 23, 2010 22:40
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papay
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
213
Posted : Nov 24, 2010 13:53
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On 2010-11-21 03:08, DETOX wrote:
Music Cd industry is dead.
And soon the movies and video games industry will both face a huge problem too.
All this illegal downloading which seems so good for most of the people out there will soon show its real face.
You cant milk the cow without feeding it.
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same goes for the whole world economy at the moment it s all gonna crash and people will have real problems not those petty issues what cd im gonna dl today
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papay
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
213
Posted : Nov 24, 2010 13:54
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and by the way radiohead singer gave the whole music industry less than a one year before it will crash n burn
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Nov 24, 2010 15:28
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Well Papay this is a music forum so we are mainly interested in the music industry future,if it was the New York Times or The BBC news forum we would talk about the world economy i guess.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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Pavel
Troll
Started Topics :
312
Posts :
8647
Posted : Nov 25, 2010 01:50
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On 2010-11-23 03:34, Basilisk wrote:
Some articles to throw into the discussion:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/jun/09/games-dvd-music-downloads-piracy
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/04/us-government-finally-admits-most-piracy-estimates-are-bogus.ars
The rule in business is this: innovate or perish. The music industry has failed to innovate much at all. This is particularly true of the underground music industry which seems to take its cues from the major labels despite having drastically different market conditions: different audience, different needs, etc. Where is the innovation in the underground?
What do we have to show for the last five years? CompactStick, which is a complete joke. Paid MP3 downloads that cost more per unit than when the music was sold on CDs and less selection overall. Beatport "exclusives" creating artificial scarcity, adding no value to the customer. Operators like Thomas Vitali building empires from the husks of fine old labels like Plusquam by spamming the shops with endless re-releases, hoping that something will sell (and don't get me started on PsyNina). Labels hardly bother with keeping their own sites updated and seem largely unaware of any new social media options aside from the MySpace ghost town. The major mail order shops haven't updated their designs in 5-8 years and none of them provide RSS feeds or maintain a presence on Twitter (which, of course, countless pirate blogs manage to do). No, the industry as a whole seems limited to hawking CDs and guilt-tripping everyone for not buying in despite a huge increase in the supply as represented by the number of active artists and labels.
There are some exceptions, of course, but true innovation in this scene is hard to find. At least that is better than the alternative, which is this disappointing fixation on wishing things would go back to how they were and criticizing fans and listeners for doing whatever they're going to do anyway.
And hey, we still go see live music and we still go to the cinema. It's experiences that people want, and the old media monopoly on the distribution of cultural goods is over. Time to adapt!
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Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
Posts :
1219
Posted : Nov 25, 2010 06:25
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"Music industry"
two words that don't even belong in the same paragraph together, much less the same sentence
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