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Platipus is dead!
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Pavel
Troll
Started Topics :
312
Posts :
8647
Posted : Nov 21, 2010 23:48
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2010 was indeed a terrible year for movies and games. I have some money to spend on video games this year but I bought only 2 games because the rest freaking sucked. As for movies, there were very very few watchable movies this year and even the dumb block busters were insanely dumb. The A-Team made Transformers 1 and 2 look good in regards to script quality and acting skills.
  Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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Plasmorh
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
559
Posted : Nov 22, 2010 03:33
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Quote:
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On 2010-11-21 13:47, DETOX wrote:
Since i always like to speak with FACTS and not with numbers out of my head here are some facts for you dear Login and Pavel.
CONCERNING THE VIDEO GAMES INDUSTRY.
In 2008 the total video game sales in the United States (both PC and console games) were 11.7 billion dollars for 298 million units. In the next year 2009 the total sales were 10.5 billion dollars for 273 million units and in 2010 there is an estimated 8% downfall that will be announced as soon as the Christmass Holidays will end which is the busiest time of the year for video games.
So dear Login i guess you have no clue of what you are talking about except ofcourse if you believe that WOW is the only game in the industry and that everybody is interested in playing online multiplayer games.
CONCERNING THE MOVIES INDUSTRY.
In 2009 in the United States 1.42 billion cinema tickets were sold for 10.65 billion dollars while in 2010 the estimations are (since the year is not over yet) that 1.30 billion tickets will be sold for 10.21 billion dollars.
In 2008 in the United States people spend 10 billion dollars for DVD and Blue Ray movies while in 2009 the number fell to 8.7 billion dollars with a small decline of around 4% expecting to take place in 2010.
So dear Pavel yes Avatar (and Toy Story 3....) were huge successes BUT the industry is declining and this is the important fact and not an individual film's success.
CONCERNING THE MUSIC INDUSTRY.
Digital Sales in USA for 2009 account for 27% of the total music sales with an 6% increase since 2008 BUT THE TOTAL MUSIC SALES in 2009 were down 12% in comparison to 2008 and the total industry sales from 2004 to 2009 is gone down 30% after the explosion of illegal downloads through the internet. In 5 years the one third of the market got wiped out and the numbers keep going down on a monthly basis.
Thanks for your time you can now continue talking about people who buy tickets in concerts,World Of Warcraft,Avatar and whatever else you like.
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this seems nerd as hell....
I want a spare brain.... or 2. |
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Nov 22, 2010 11:52
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I think its called statistics...
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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aje
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
99
Posts :
1145
Posted : Nov 22, 2010 12:08
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This is old news, Platipus has been dead for a while, but still:
RIP!!!
Probably my favoritre music label of all times before they turned to commercial eurotrance around the year 1999/2000, at least no other label had such an influence on me musically speaking. The last Union Jack album that came out last year was awseome, too bad it didnt get the recognition it deserved.
Check out my album: http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/gay-satanic-hippie-tiefenrausch |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Nov 22, 2010 15:44
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DETOX,
There is nothing wrong with the numbers you presented – only with the way you interpreted them.
First, the declining sales in games and movies are in line with the overall decline of the US economy (and the decrease in credit card spending in particular). The decline in music sales is much more pronounced, so there must be some forces in play that are not influencing movies and games.
And second, “declining sales” is not the same as “losses”. Your statistics don’t mention profits, only gross sales. That is these industries are not “losing money”, they are just not making as much as they would like.
And let’s also look not just at percentage changes but at absolute numbers as well. Those revenues are still bigger than some countries’ GDPs. 
P.S. Agree with Pavel: 2010 sucked movie-wise. Which, I believe, is also a function of the financial troubles: studios churning out crap to pay the bills instead of investing in masterpieces.
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
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6194
Posted : Nov 22, 2010 16:29
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Dear Maine Coon i am not examining why these numbers become smaller year by year, i am just mentioning the numbers and the fact that they are becoming smaller.
Pavel mentioned that people buy now digital music and another user mentioned that the video games industry is going very well (since WOW has 13 million users) and i am presenting them these numbers to prove the opposite.
THE FACT IS THAT THE SALES BOTH IN UNITS AND MONEYWISE IN THE MUSIC,FILMS AND VIDEO GAMES INDUSTRY ARE GOING DOWN.
Why this happens is another story tottally irrelevant with what Pavel and Login said in their original posts. First we see the problem and then we analyse it, if you all can accept the problem then we can move on to the analysis if you like its fine about me.
And yes like you said declining sales doesnt mean losses but still this has now to do with individual companies and not the industry as a whole. For example the company that released Avatar made millions of dollars in the film industry indeed but who cares about that if another 50 companies lost money this year while they had profit or break even in the previous years? We look for the industry as a whole here and not as an individual company analysis. Whether the decline is less profit or losses its a decline and we cant deny that.
P.S The music industry is the best example since its decline in the last ten years for every year is 100% related with the increase of the internet and the availability of computers and cd recorders in every house. This decline is just showing in the video games and films industry because its just recently that every house has high speed adsl internet connection necessery for 3-4 gigabyte downloads that a movie or a video game usually consists of unlike music tracks that are just some megabytes or that can be watched for free on youtube. In 3-4 years when the connections will become even faster you will see how the films and video games industry will be affected even more.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Nov 22, 2010 16:52
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Quote:
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On 2010-11-22 16:29, DETOX wrote:
THE FACT IS THAT THE SALES BOTH IN UNITS AND MONEYWISE IN THE MUSIC, FILMS AND VIDEO GAMES INDUSTRY ARE GOING DOWN.
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Yep. And the same goes for houses, time-share condos and sail boats. 
I am not going to argue with your predictions for the movie and games industries for the next 3-4 years. First, I am not arrogant enough to claim that I know where they will go. And second, I kinda agree with you here. But what has been happening to these two industries so far has to do with the overall suckage of the economy, not piracy. Music sales dropped much more than those two and the drop started long before 2008. So, obviously, it’s not just about the subprime bust. Again, I agree with your assessment for the music industry here – it’s probably mostly about piracy. I disagree only with your bundling of the three industries together and claiming that they are affected by the same factors in the same way. For now at least, that's not the case. Time will probably prove you right in the next 3-5 years. But for now such bundling is not justified, imo.
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Nov 22, 2010 17:43
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demoniac
Demoniac Insomniac
Started Topics :
85
Posts :
1281
Posted : Nov 22, 2010 19:44
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Sorry guys but Detox is right
You cannot say that 2010 was a bad year for movies LOL
I think that is good year for movies, maybe there is no Titanic or Matrix, but for sure there are good movies out there.
Digital sales are minor, actuly the digital sales are less then in 2008 & 2009...
Fast internet is the future, and the only way to make money out of it is - Advertising!
People are being economical, that's all...
Why spending thousand of euros on a dvd movie, and wait for 2 weeks to get it,and then make a big space for the dvd case, when he can download from a torrent website in 15 min, and put it on a 1 TB external HD that cost 50 eu??
We are going in a new direction, "Emotional Era" is over, everything is going in modernization, integration and simplifying.
VA - Spiritual Science out now!
http://www.activemeditationmusic.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=703&category_id=6&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=7 |
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saintcarl
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
209
Posted : Nov 22, 2010 21:57
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Well I must agree with Maine Coon about the numbers especially since I also live here in the States where we are in the middle of the worst depression of our lives so far. Most people I know are not spending as much due to possibility of losing there jobs or due to reduced pay.
Although I did heard in news today that the new black ops game sold $650 million in first week which topped new harry potter which netted $120 million in first week - not bad.
Not sure what Demoniac is talking about spending thousand euros on a DVD movie? I am finding it very convenient to stream my movies with Netflix and pay monthly subscription. |
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Nov 23, 2010 03:34
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Some articles to throw into the discussion:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/jun/09/games-dvd-music-downloads-piracy
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/04/us-government-finally-admits-most-piracy-estimates-are-bogus.ars
The rule in business is this: innovate or perish. The music industry has failed to innovate much at all. This is particularly true of the underground music industry which seems to take its cues from the major labels despite having drastically different market conditions: different audience, different needs, etc. Where is the innovation in the underground?
What do we have to show for the last five years? CompactStick, which is a complete joke. Paid MP3 downloads that cost more per unit than when the music was sold on CDs and less selection overall. Beatport "exclusives" creating artificial scarcity, adding no value to the customer. Operators like Thomas Vitali building empires from the husks of fine old labels like Plusquam by spamming the shops with endless re-releases, hoping that something will sell (and don't get me started on PsyNina). Labels hardly bother with keeping their own sites updated and seem largely unaware of any new social media options aside from the MySpace ghost town. The major mail order shops haven't updated their designs in 5-8 years and none of them provide RSS feeds or maintain a presence on Twitter (which, of course, countless pirate blogs manage to do). No, the industry as a whole seems limited to hawking CDs and guilt-tripping everyone for not buying in despite a huge increase in the supply as represented by the number of active artists and labels.
There are some exceptions, of course, but true innovation in this scene is hard to find. At least that is better than the alternative, which is this disappointing fixation on wishing things would go back to how they were and criticizing fans and listeners for doing whatever they're going to do anyway.
And hey, we still go see live music and we still go to the cinema. It's experiences that people want, and the old media monopoly on the distribution of cultural goods is over. Time to adapt!
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
155
Posts :
2035
Posted : Nov 23, 2010 08:25
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We had this discussion many times before, so I'm not gonna go through all of it again. Let me just tell you that as someone who is involved in the music "industry", in our "scene" and others, I know for sure that even innovative, adapting, creative labels, musicians, producers & DJs are finding it harder and harder to have music creation and spreading as the thing they do in life. And I'm talking about respected, successful, multi-talented ones that I consider full of quality and even veteran ones that already have followers. For new ones it's practically impossible. The outcome of this process will be that music will become a hobby, and if anyone here thinks that they will get the same depth, quality, creativity, innovation, production, whatever from someone who's doing this as a hobby after he/she gets home from a day of hard work, especially if he/she has a family waiting for him there, as they do from someone who dedicates his/her life to it, then you're plain dumb.
And Basilisk, please note that the innovation and adaptation you're talking about have nothing to do with music. You're talking about the spreading of music in order to generate income, where people need to innovate and adapt in. The price is that the artist/label spend their time promoting/pushing/interacting in countless arenas, and again, they don't have time for music. As a label owner these days I find myself wasting my time in FB and learning fbml, hunting for blogs, posting in forums, twitting, etc. etc. etc. It's the same with all independent artists that cannot afford to pay for someone to do it for them (that's expensive!). I don't have time to listen to music! I'm also trying to generate income in many other ways that are not connected to spreading my musical vision, but have to do with the music I own. Many artists are doing the same (mastering, mixing, producing, writing scores, etc. etc.). Again- no time for music, for creating and spreading creative music. It becomes a hobby you try to finance with other activities. And remember, some amazing musicians are just not good at all that, they're only good in writing amazing music. And again, for new unknown artists/labels that do not already have a following, it's practically impossible. That means that new and exciting things get choked right from the start, have no time to develop and flower and just drown in the sea of mediocre and bad.
We (who try to stick to it) all hope that a new model that will support music creation will emerge as we believe that good music and art are essential to people's life. We try to survive till that happens in any means we have. But it's becoming closer and closer to impossible.
I've been saying this for more then 5 years. People need to get it into their heads that unless they support the music they like it will disappear. And no pseudo-moral revolutionary "ideals" will change this fact. And don't bullshit me that you don't have money. Anyone can enter iTunes once a month and spend a $1 on an artist/label who's music he likes. A cheap and simple minimum. The more you'll give the more you'll get. You won't give, you won't have.
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"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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V3NOM
Inactive User
Started Topics :
131
Posts :
2234
Posted : Nov 23, 2010 08:50
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Never was a huge Platipus fan, but they seemed to be heading this way for some time. Is it really a surprise when all the other labels from that era are dead?
Good on them for going as long as they did.
I hate you, you hate me, we are all so hap hap happy! |
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Nov 23, 2010 09:24
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On 2010-11-23 08:25, shahar wrote:
And Basilisk, please note that the innovation and adaptation you're talking about have nothing to do with music. |
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Sure, but we were talking about sales and markets before, not the music itself. The way I see it, we certainly have lost something with this transformation of the industry, but some things have also been gained. It is just a bunch of trade-offs, and I am merely describing what I see, not arguing that this is the best outcome. Trust me, I know where you're going with this discussion about quality, and there are parts I certainly agree with. But, for the sake of balance, I would also raise two related issues: many innovative musicians have left this scene not because of piracy but because of poor business practice (Opsis, 12 Moons, etc.). And, additionally, there are arguably many innovative artists working today who would have been shut out of the industry were it not for some new options open to them to spread their music. I still remember speaking with Jikkenteki and Sound Field way back in the day about their frustration with labels sending back demos demanding GMS bass lines and so on. It motivated me to develop another option, one that you might argue is more for the hobbyist. Of course, good music is within the domain of the hobbyist as well as the full-time musician! Besides, if the sale of recordings is really as unrewarding for the full-time artist as it seems, why not free the music and focus on activities that remain profitable?
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On 2010-11-23 08:25, shahar wrote:
I've been saying this for more then 5 years. People need to get it into their heads that unless they support the music they like it will disappear. And no pseudo-moral revolutionary "ideals" will change this fact. And don't bullshit me that you don't have money. Anyone can enter iTunes once a month and spend a $1 on an artist/label who's music he likes. A cheap and simple minimum. The more you'll give the more you'll get. You won't give, you won't have. |
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I think the reality is that a lot of people won't spend $1 on iTunes but they'll gladly pay $200 for a festival ticket. The new situation is poor for stay-at-home artists and anyone uninterested in playing live but there is great income potential for the travelling artist. Again, there are trade-offs involved with the shift in the marketplace but it isn't all bad. I think a worthwhile thought experiment would be to consider what portion of an artist's income is derived from recordings vs bookings in the past and in the present day. Since no one is particularly forthcoming with that sort of data it takes someone who is more connected to assess the situation in terms of real money. I can only speculate, throw out some ideas, and agitate a little  I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I do like injecting these discussions with another perspective! |
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Nov 23, 2010 11:20
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On 2010-11-23 08:25, shahar wrote:
The outcome of this process will be that music will become a hobby, and if anyone here thinks that they will get the same depth, quality, creativity, innovation, production, whatever from someone who's doing this as a hobby after he/she gets home from a day of hard work, especially if he/she has a family waiting for him there, as they do from someone who dedicates his/her life to it, then you're plain dumb.
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This is the essential truth. People may love making music but first they need to provide for their family so music will become a hobby and not one of their priorities. Labels dont pay money anymore to sign tracks and the gigs are very few and mostly during the festivals in the summer time so there is no way in living out of music and supporting a family. When you cant make money out of making music then you cant invest a lot of time,effort and money in the process so the result will never be the same as if it would be if we would be talking about a full time dedicated musician.
Like i have said in the past all that each one of us had to do to support this scene is to buy just one cd per month of his favorite artist or label. Just one damn cd for 10-15 euros nothing more nothing less. Unfortunately most of the people who are involved in this scene havent bought anything for 2-3 years and just keep downloading their music.
So no wonder the labels close, no wonder artists stop producing and no wonder a lot of artists turn their attention to other music styles that can offer them more money and gigs to support their music production love since the psychedelic trance scene is more or less dead with average cd sales around 500-600 copies per release when before 5 years the average sales were around 2000 copies for a nice release.
Things wont change unless we change them but its already too late for the psy trance scene in my humble opinion.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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