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percussions - some help needed
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koncz
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
14
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 14:29
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hey guys! i'm struggeling a little with my percussions. its not that i dont have any good samples or stuff, it's just that i dont really know how to put them in the track in order to give the track some drive just by the drumset. the basic structure of my drums look pretty much like this:
k k k
bbb bbb bbb
O O O
C C C C C C (or on every 16th)
sometimes i vary the Closed HiHats but all in all its just lame and i would like to add some percussions. It would be great if you guys can help me a little with the right use of percussions, what kind of percussions do you like to use, how do you place them, what fx do yo add and stuff. all kind of help would be great. thank you guys!
koncz
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
97
Posts :
1220
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 14:42
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first, use snare or claps or both to make a rythm...for example put on each 2nd kick a snare and some others around them...then you can also use some hats to make the rythm even more complex (in addition to the open and the closed 16th hat)
you can also try to use some bongos or cymbals or rims in addition to the percussion...its all about what u want 
oh and be sure to set the envelopes and velocity right...that does a lot to the drive the percussion will give to your track
fx wise I dont do much usually...a little eq, maybe some exciting or distortion and a tiny bit of reverb...but you can also try stuff like flanger, chorus, phaser or what not to get some more crazy rythmic hats....like I said, its all about what you want to get, experiment and you will get there 
 https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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koncz
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
14
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 16:56
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thx man! you're right, gotta keep trying and trying. when you say "...and put some others around them" do you mean i should add a completly different snare or do you mean that i should take the same snare i put on every second kick? (what i do by the way, just forgot to put it in my "amazing graphic" lol.)
but ok, i realize it was a kinda stupid topic i've started, i guess like you said, i just have to try and find out.... i was just wondering if there are any basic ways to place percussions like there is for example the offbeat for the open hihat...
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
97
Posts :
1220
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 17:03
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ok one more thing to the snares...try to layer 2 or more samples on each 2nd kick...then take one of them (or a totally different one) and put it 1/8 after that (or 3/16th or whatever)...thats a pretty basic but effective way
you can use also different kind of snares for each 2nd kick within 2bars for example....or put some different ones before each 2nd kick (3/16th before or so)
whatever, I hope that gave you some ideas now good luck
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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koncz
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
14
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 17:17
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hey man thx indeed! i will give it a try when i am home. Really appreciate it! |
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
981
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 17:30
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In Cubase I don't use midi to trigger percussion, I always import straight onto the track. For different levels of velocity I duplicate the track, and lower or raise the volume.
I prefer basic velocity changes (maximum of 3 changes per sound about 3db difference each).
Madscientist - could you suggest some ideas for envelopes on percussion and how do you apply them. I use the process menu in cubase and play with the envelopes on audio, although generally randomly with no overall plan.
My percussion, although funky. Lacks drive. |
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
97
Posts :
1220
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 18:37
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since I'm on logic and using a sampler for my percussion its a bit different, but I'll give you some general hints
with my snares I usually dont really use velocity, just max 2 steps sometimes (1normal, and one a bit lower)...I usually do that separation with volume and different distortion settings
with envelopes there goes nothing like a plan...its different for each sound, as you might know...but overall I suggest for all percussion types very low or none attack, maybe a bit hold if needed, an average level sustain (for me always in the upper half of the sustain knob), but the major thing that gives the dynamics is the release...I suggest to set the release always as short as possible, without changing the sound you want
also try some multiband distortion on the snares...works pretty fine
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
981
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 19:15
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Thanks, I will experiment.
Does anyone have any envelope suggestions for Cubase, as the envelope process option seems a bit limited. |
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
97
Posts :
1220
Posted : Aug 20, 2007 19:21
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get a sampler, process the envelopes in the sampler and bounce the samples...then get them as audio in cubase
it works a bit around, but should work pretty well
at least since I dont know cubase and its envelopes that much 
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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astrotec
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
193
Posted : Aug 21, 2007 13:09
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i think the envelopes in Battery do the job alright, you can shape the sound just how you want with ADSR.i always end up giving my snares a bit of attack so it doesn't mask the kickdrum. |
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makus
Overdream
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
3087
Posted : Aug 21, 2007 18:28
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i import all percussion elemets into cubase on the special track for each element. every track has its level and equalizer (and sometimes compressor and desired effect processors) prepared specially for its perc element.
i make envelopes using volume and fade curves.
all patterns i create with my hands.
sure this method isnt the fastest one to create drum parts but it really does give me all the control on each element. i use a specioal track for my kick and apply a billion of effects to it just as offline effect or automation on its track. why i cant do that with all my drums?
actually during last 8-9 years i make music i tryed a bunch of methods, vst samplers and other applications to work with drums. in 2000 when reason was released i thought that its redrum is almost all i need and actually it was quite good when rewired to cunase; one the other hand after using it for some time i realized its crap.
i used battery and had troubles with it 'coz it had bugs and i what i really dont like is creating a patern in midi channel.
i used kontakt and halion, but didnt even finished a track with them.
in the end i realized that the best results i get when importing all needed elemets to audio tracks and manipulatin' them.
bom!
www.overdreamstudio.com |
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l!l
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
48
Posted : Aug 21, 2007 22:49
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I got a couple of tips for you
First off, try using a sampler and make those percs sound "cleaner", once you start tweaking you will know what I mean. Because, in my opinion, most drum samples sound too realistic to be put in psy tracks right off the bat... they sound too acoustic. This can be fixed in the sampler.
Second, try panning things, like say, a loop of cymbals panning left and right. It makes the track feel more alive! I use a lot of little details in my percussion.
Lastly, check out Cosmosis' website. Theres an article of his written specifically about percussion I think you should check out.
Good luck |
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fuzzikitten
Annunaki
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
603
Posted : Aug 21, 2007 23:40
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After you get your percussion programmed, tweaked, and FX'd, make sure to route them all into a group compressor (or several groups with compressors).
I tend to have my percussion going to group channels with a 1kHz highpass or 5kHz highpass on them. Then after I get the percussion sounding about right I'll drop a compressor on each of the group tracks to help gel up the percussion, and then I'll route the two seperate groups into a master 'percussion' group with another compressor to boot. It really does make the percussion lusher with just a little compression.
Lastly if, like me, you like a pronounced open highhat that stands out from the rest of the compression, don't route it into your compressed channels directly. Instead have the open hat play uncompressed (or with it's own compressor) and do a send from the highpass into the additional percussion group. You'll have to back off your raw hihat volume a bit because it will now be playing out of the percussion group in addition to raw, but with that extra hihat signal in the percussion group you get a kind of pseudo side-chaining from the open hat onto the rest of the percussion, causing the rest of the percussion to be compressed a bit more whenever the open hat sounds.
cheers,
-fk |
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
981
Posted : Aug 22, 2007 00:28
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Agree 100% with you Makus. I've tried other methods, I'm sure they work fine for people, but I just can't bring myself to use a sampler.
I use compressors, but not as creatively as your suggestion fuzzikitten, I'll give it a go.
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Aug 22, 2007 03:07
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For trance, keep that kick on the 1,2,3,4. Anything else is a free for all, unless you want everything to feature the same pattern... which is nice, I guess.
As for mixing your samples, that's all time and practice I reckon. Or get someone else to do it |
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