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PC Choice
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Apr 1, 2008 11:53
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On 2008-04-01 08:36, subconsciousmind wrote:
spindrift.
I said above 2222222! 2000 Euro. Not ONE 1000 Euro!
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I quote you from earlier in the thread:
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That is the ONLY price range / concept where building an own PC makes sense. around 1000Euro.
(What many of you proposed) |
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| Just to save maybe only something like 100Euros to take the risk of selfmade system over a proven, warranted system still doesn't make it a good choice. |
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Specifying a system down to every component is not a risk, but rather a way of mitigating risks.
One could argue that it's nice to get a ready made package because you don't have to do your research.
That is true with some systems, like for example the purpose built DAW's mentioned earlier.
With a Mac Pro there is no such guarantee if you run Windows on it, you do have to research that the system will work fine with your hardware and software combination.
And the reason to go for a PC is not only to save €100.
You still try to make into that the reason to get a PC is only because it's cheaper which is just wrong.
The thing is that you can make choices yourself.
You maybe want a dead quiet machine, like a chassis that looks different or have more space, want to have a PATA connection on the mobo, need a graphics card that is really good for gaming or for 3D work...etc, etc.
Or maybe you just don't think that it's a great idea to spend €800 more on CPU's just to have 1600Mhz bus speed and rather put that money on a nice display or a RAID array of really fast disks.
Do I need to go on, or are you getting the point?
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| But still, also you DIY idea doesn't change that. Spending more than 2000 Euro on a DIY system over a mac pro is more a "idealistic" choice, than a logical one. |
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Again you keep going on about a custom built machine as "DIY" as it would be something negative in contrast to readymade.
Many shops offer to build the system for you and give you whole system support if that's want you want.
Being able to get a system tailor made a system is not "DIY" regardless of if you slot the parts together yourself or not, it's a luxury and not something you do to cut corners.
As for the ready made DAW systems, I do think they are a bit pricey for what they offer but since support is so important to you I'm surprised you don't value that aspect.
Try calling Apple support and tell them that "I'm getting glitches when I run Live and my UAD card in bootcamped windows, can you fix it?".
You pay for their expertise in assembling a good DAW build, installing all your software and hardware and to get service and support for the whole system.
You can get whole mac systems from some shops like that as well...I used to work myself with configuring mac for studios in one of them...but then you also pay an extra premium of course.
So if you want to compare apples and apples you have to see what that Mac Pro will cost you if you buy it with that kind of service.
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http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Apr 1, 2008 12:45
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On 2008-04-01 11:53, Spindrift wrote:
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On 2008-04-01 08:36, subconsciousmind wrote:
spindrift.
I said above 2222222! 2000 Euro. Not ONE 1000 Euro!
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I quote you from earlier in the thread:
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That is the ONLY price range / concept where building an own PC makes sense. around 1000Euro.
(What many of you proposed) |
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Yes I said, that and this has nothing to do with the "above 2000 go for mac pro".
You, yourself said, that there is a prize range (where the mac pro is in) where prizes raise unproportional to the gain of performance we agreed to that.
To make clear why my two statements work together well. (I admit that wasn't clear)
- 1000 Euro build your self. Very efficient.
- 1000 Euro plus, increase in prize not proportional to gain of performance. Not so smart... Therefore doesn't make sense to buy a PC or Mac in that prize range as for efficiency.
IF, Spend more than 2000Euro (as proposed ready made systems) go for mac pro.
This was my statement.
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| Just to save maybe only something like 100Euros to take the risk of selfmade system over a proven, warranted system still doesn't make it a good choice. |
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Specifying a system down to every component is not a risk, but rather a way of mitigating risks.
One could argue that it's nice to get a ready made package because you don't have to do your research.
That is true with some systems, like for example the purpose built DAW's mentioned earlier.
With a Mac Pro there is no such guarantee if you run Windows on it, you do have to research that the system will work fine with your hardware and software combination.
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Look, you are a builder, DIY man, with experience and the will to do research and work to assemble a system. Sure you can build a stable system. But thats not a solution for everybody. Its by FAR not the same effort and security as simply go in a shop and buy a complete system. Its a lot of work and a huge amount of knowledge and experience needed to get the same security in stability as with a system as proven as the mac pro. This is why you can not compare this.
If the solution was like 30% cheaper I would say, well ok.. it might be worth the work, but with such little difference.
I'm a very experienced builder myself, I really good at it, still, just to save maybe not even save a little money and some possibilities in choice which, (since the mac pro is very well for a DAW as is) is not even important, I'm not going through this if I could get the ready made mac.
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And the reason to go for a PC is not only to save €100.
You still try to make into that the reason to get a PC is only because it's cheaper which is just wrong.
The thing is that you can make choices yourself.
You maybe want a dead quiet machine, like a chassis that looks different or have more space, want to have a PATA connection on the mobo, need a graphics card that is really good for gaming or for 3D work...etc, etc.
Or maybe you just don't think that it's a great idea to spend €800 more on CPU's just to have 1600Mhz bus speed and rather put that money on a nice display or a RAID array of really fast disks.
Do I need to go on, or are you getting the point?
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Sure I do, but it is not the point. Display f.i. is no subject here, since the talk was about spending 2000Euro PLUS for simply a computer. Sure as for the other wishes, if you have them its going to be more expensive you are right about that. But thats new "Ifs" and "speculations". but as for a good powerful DAW, what this is about the macpro is perfect as is.
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| But still, also you DIY idea doesn't change that. Spending more than 2000 Euro on a DIY system over a mac pro is more a "idealistic" choice, than a logical one. |
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Again you keep going on about a custom built machine as "DIY" as it would be something negative in contrast to readymade.
Many shops offer to build the system for you and give you whole system support if that's want you want.
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Not where I live, certainly not for that prize, certainly not those giving the prizes necessairy to beat the mac pro.
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Being able to get a system tailor made a system is not "DIY" regardless of if you slot the parts together yourself or not, it's a luxury and not something you do to cut corners.
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Sure its DIY, its something for freaks as we are, not for the musician who wants a computer. Look, I think you are really looking far too much out of your eyes (or mine) the eyes of somebody with a lot of experience in this.. but man, we are only the smaller part.
I do so much support of fellow musicians, I get so many question on computers and such. My eyxperience is, that for 90% of the people I know would be too much to build a system as the mac pro. And just for choices as you said and the little money to save (if at all) I would never recommend them to go through all this and then even get stuck with windows vista one day.
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As for the ready made DAW systems, I do think they are a bit pricey for what they offer but since support is so important to you I'm surprised you don't value that aspect.
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Sure I do, but why should I pay more for them if I can get the same from the mac pro?
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Try calling Apple support and tell them that "I'm getting glitches when I run Live and my UAD card in bootcamped windows, can you fix it?".
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No, with that you wouldn't go to apple. Thats all stuff for the other companies involved.
Also every PC-DAW seller would send you to ableton and UAD with that.
I'm valuing the fact that a broken system can be sent as is etc. simply saves time.
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You pay for their expertise in assembling a good DAW build, installing all your software and hardware and to get service and support for the whole system.
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Those kinds of offers at same performance are far out of the prize range of the discussion.
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You can get whole mac systems from some shops like that as well...I used to work myself with configuring mac for studios in one of them...but then you also pay an extra premium of course.
So if you want to compare apples and apples you have to see what that Mac Pro will cost you if you buy it with that kind of service.
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Since you do not even get a ready made system as the MacPro WITHOUT service as discribed in the PC world this comparison does not work.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Apr 1, 2008 19:26
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On 2008-04-01 00:58, subconsciousmind wrote:
3: "Winner" .. this is a discussion its not about winning, but learning! People with an attitude like this must be completely unable for a discussion in the first place, I'm sorry for you Mike, that you have to look at it like this. This in no War, where winning place a role. If people really think of discussions like that I can understand why discussions sometime go like this.
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Sarcasm anyone?
This whole thread turned ridiculus long ago, so I was just having fun.
Even if both of you have valid points, it really turned to be just a fight of who has a bigger e-penis. Seriously. It is no more educational for any silent readers that may read it now. From the point of a viewer it looks quite hilarious. Sorry if I offend you by saying it 
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Apr 2, 2008 00:08
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