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Passive Volume Controller between Soundcard and Monitors
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 24, 2008 20:41
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i m wondering what is the most transparent? hiting your da at -40db or using one of these passive volume control |
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Fragletrollet
Fragletrollet
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Posted : Nov 24, 2008 21:34
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And I was wondering when you need AD/DA other than the one in the soundcard? And many people would never even use the DA? (Most electronic music stays digital, no?) And isnt really the most used DA the one in cd-players?
Or am I just very confused?
Do you buy external AD/DA boxes because the converters are better than the ones mostly found in soundcards? Because you dont want to use it with computers?
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Nov 24, 2008 21:36
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Quote:
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On 2008-11-24 20:41, PoM wrote:
i m wondering what is the most transparent? hiting your da at -40db or using one of these passive volume control
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Passive volume control. For every 6dB (I think) below 0dbFS your track peaks, you use 1 less bit to represent the data. Hitting the D/A at -40dBFS means you're only using 24-7(ish)=17 bits, and you can therefore expect your reverb tails and quiet sections to sound a bit grainy.
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On 2008-11-24 21:34, Fragletrollet wrote:
And I was wondering when you need AD/DA other than the one in the soundcard? And many people would never even use the DA? (Most electronic music stays digital, no?) And isnt really the most used DA the one in cd-players?
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Unless you have an S/PDIF input on the back of your head, the only way you'll hear your music as you're writing it is though a D/A of some sort, whether it's on your computer's motherboard or in an external audio interface. Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
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Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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Fragletrollet
Fragletrollet
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Posted : Nov 24, 2008 21:53
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Get-a-fix
Getafix
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Posted : Nov 24, 2008 22:00
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No you buy it so that you can have the most accurate conversion possible. Usually these standalone units will be better than those all purpose interfaces.
Though how much better is subjective! I think it's more important to have a well treated room & the best monitors you can afford before you need to worry about your D/A.
Same thing goes for A/D conversion, you want to make sure that the signal going from your mic pre doesn't get degraded when it's converted into digital. Again it's better to concentrate on mics & mic pre's before focusing on A/D conversion.
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Nov 24, 2008 22:22
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Fragletrollet
Fragletrollet
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Posted : Nov 24, 2008 22:36
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Nov 24, 2008 23:08
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
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Posted : Nov 25, 2008 04:35
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hey do you guys really think you loose bit depth if you turn the soundcard master down???
i meen obviously it will when u do it from cubase master channel , but it should not effect anything to the final render at all?
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Trip-
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Nov 25, 2008 10:00
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Elad, cubase master, soundcard master, as long as it's digital (0dbFS and below), you will lose bit depth.
Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
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Posted : Nov 25, 2008 12:22
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either im really dumb or you didnt got me right
when RENDER (expoert , bounce) does it matter ?
i will be stocked to know that is true , as i got no volume control at all and i always about -40DB then maximum volume... :S
and also , with volume seperate control (not when bounce just when working) if you turn it down (cause no one work on full volume hey) you still cant really hear -90db signal??
i might be abit lost between analog 0 to digital 0 somewhere hey.. but wouldnt 24bit file actualy fully "working" only when we go over 96 db (speaker output)?
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Nov 25, 2008 13:22
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Quote:
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On 2008-11-25 12:22, Elad wrote:
i might be abit lost between analog 0 to digital 0 somewhere hey.. but wouldnt 24bit file actualy fully "working" only when we go over 96 db (speaker output)?
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Obviously 96 dBFS does not correlate exactly to 96 dBu or SPL, but the need for resolution becomes smaller the lower you listening level is...so if you listen to your music at say 50dB SPL the dynamic range of 96 dBFS of 16 bit will easily suffice.
Rendering and bouncing is done before the audio data hits the soundcard and whatever controls that might have, so the concern is only relating to your monitoring situation.
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Trip-
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Nov 25, 2008 13:43
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EDIT: What spindrift said and,
When you render, Cubase is writing data to disk - there is no digital to analog conversion happening in your soundcard - so the file created depends on your Cubase master fader.
Digital 0, (0dBfs) is the maximum amplitude of the digital source without clipping.
Analog 0 (dB) or simply SPL, is relative to the level at which a human ear can start hearing.
SPL can be measured.
Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
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UnderTow
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Posted : Nov 25, 2008 13:52
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Quote:
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On 2008-11-24 21:36, Colin OOOD wrote:
For every 6dB (I think) below 0dbFS your track peaks, you use 1 less bit to represent the data. Hitting the D/A at -40dBFS means you're only using 24-7(ish)=17 bits, and you can therefore expect your reverb tails and quiet sections to sound a bit grainy.
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This isn't entirely correct. If your levels are low in your sequencer and your sequencer applies correct dither before passing over the signal at 24 bits to your soundcard, there will be no graininess. 17 bit is still more than a CD.
On the other hand, if you are at max level in your sequencer and you use the volume control of your soundcard's control panel AND your soundcard doesn't properly dither the signal, you _might_ hear graininess in the soft parts.
Yes in an ideal world you would want to use the full range of your soundcard and have a high-quality monitor controller (passive or relay based or whatever) but, as already mentioned, this is only something to worry about when everything else in your studio is of the highest quality.
Oh and a cheap monitor controller is just as likely to degrade the signal. Maybe even more so considering the quality of good modern converters.
As for external converters, yes the best ones are external but for instance the LynxTWO converters, which are on the PCI card, are pretty damned good and beat many external converters.
For instance, you are much better off with a Lynx card than with a MOTU card with converters in a break-out box, or anything I've heard from Appogee let alone the cheaper brands.
It is all about design quality in the end.
UnderTow
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Nov 25, 2008 17:41
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