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Panning in Ableton- skipping the limiter, wtf?
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Ascension
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Posted : Dec 2, 2010 01:13:00
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So, for some reason when I use the built in track panning on a channel in Ableton the sound coming out of that channel magically skips past the limiter.
For instance, I have panning on a track with a drum rack and when I have my snare panning the limiter I have set doesn't do anything (it's set to -8db and the channel will go up to around -7.3db). It doesn't matter if the limiter is outside the whole rack or on just the snare sample. This also happens on a channel where I have impulse with a kick sample, it skips past the limiter when I pan the sound.
Anyone have any idea what's going on here? I have my kick and bass sent to a bus channel and that limiter still works when the sounds are panned, but I'd like to know what's going on or if anyone has had the same thing happen. Thanks!
  http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 2, 2010 17:51
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^
Will check if this happens to me too.
Meanwhile, here is a thought: why not pan after the limiter? |
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Ascension
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Posted : Dec 2, 2010 21:06
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Quote:
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On 2010-12-02 17:51, Maine Coon wrote:
^
Will check if this happens to me too.
Meanwhile, here is a thought: why not pan after the limiter?
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Is there a way to do that? I'm using Ableton's track panning, not a plugin. The limiter I'm using is Ableton's.
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 2, 2010 23:05
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^
I was going to suggest putting a Utility plugin after your limiter and using it instead of the track pan control. But when I tried, the effect was the same as with the track pan control – exactly what you described.
Now to the original question:
Your limiter is not bypassed. But it outputs two stereo channels. When you pan, you make one channel louder and the other one softer. With the hard pan, one channel will disappear altogether and the other one will be a bit higher than it was originally. You can try and slide your limiter to -12 dB and see that your output will be about -11 dB in one channel and nothing in the other. So, your limiter actually works.
If you absolutely need to never exceed -8 dB in either stereo channel, put Utility before your limiter and use it to pan without touching the track's pan setting. This way, one stereo channel will go down in volume but the other will be firmly at -8 dB.
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Ascension
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Posted : Dec 3, 2010 00:39
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Quote:
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On 2010-12-02 23:05, Maine Coon wrote:
Now to the original question:
Your limiter is not bypassed. But it outputs two stereo channels. When you pan, you make one channel louder and the other one softer. With the hard pan, one channel will disappear altogether and the other one will be a bit higher than it was originally. You can try and slide your limiter to -12 dB and see that your output will be about -11 dB in one channel and nothing in the other. So, your limiter actually works.
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Shouldn't Ableton route the automation through the channel before my fx though? Even if the sound gets louder in the speaker, it should still have to go through the fx and thus be caught by the limiter, right? I'm gonna try a different limiter too, although I assume the same thing will happen.
I'll try the Utility, for now I just grouped my percussion and limited that.
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 3, 2010 00:57
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Maybe I am not catching something here… 
What I imagine from your description (and what I tried today) is this:
Impulse -> Limiter (@ -8 dB)
In this case, both columns in the channel’s meter jump to -8 dB.
Now, if I change panning of the whole track, one meter will drop below -8 dB and the other will go above. Your limiter still works at -8 dB but panning moves the resulting sound closer to one ear and farther from the other.
If I do this:
Impulse -> Limiter (@ -8 dB) -> Utility
and change panning through Utility but leave the overall track panning alone, I will see the meters behave exactly the same way: one goes down, the other goes up.
However, when I swap Utility and Limiter:
Impulse -> Utuility -> Limiter (@ -8 dB)
and change panning in Utility, one meter goes below -8 dB but the other doesn’t go above – it get’s limited at -8 dB. I guess, Limiter works independently on each stereo channel.
Is any of this helpful? Or at least, is it at all related to your question?
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Ascension
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Posted : Dec 3, 2010 04:03
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Yeah I got what you were saying before, I'm just confused as to what is going on inside Ableton here. To me, the limiter should be the last thing the sound goes through in that channel before it goes to anything else it's sent to, therefor it should still be limited, no matter what the track panning is (and therefor should never go above -8db).
I guess I could do more testing, but even when I automate the volume on a channel, it will still go through the channel's fx (so if a sound is limited to -8db and the channel volume is set to +1db, the highest the sound will go is -7db). I don't see why track panning would do anything different, and basically don't understand why the sound seems to be passing by the limiter (since the channel volume is going above what I have set on the limiter).
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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willsanquil
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Posted : Dec 3, 2010 22:57
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Ascension
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Posted : Dec 3, 2010 23:17
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willsanquil
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Posted : Dec 3, 2010 23:38
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Ascension
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Posted : Dec 3, 2010 23:57
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Trevon
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Posted : Dec 4, 2010 19:30
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I haven't try it yeat... I'll do it next.
If it happens, you discoreved a new huge bug. it should be reported.
what about if you group the track, and add the limiter on the group channel instead of the track itself?
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Ascension
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Posted : Dec 4, 2010 21:11
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Quote:
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On 2010-12-04 19:30, Trevon wrote:
I haven't try it yeat... I'll do it next.
If it happens, you discoreved a new huge bug. it should be reported.
what about if you group the track, and add the limiter on the group channel instead of the track itself?
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I did that and it works. I'd call it a bug too.
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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Ascension
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Posted : Dec 8, 2010 20:18
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Suloo
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Posted : Dec 8, 2010 21:11
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you can download this stereo dual pan from my old website and just drag and drop it into audio fx rack folder.
http://www.dark-zlime.de.tl/Live-Downloads.htm
then you can insert it anywhere you want in the channel..the build in pan sucks anyway.
cheers
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