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Over 7-bit MIDI controller messages...?
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golem
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 18, 2008 03:52:45
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There has been one problem that has bothered me lately.
Think of the following to applications:
- you want to use sliders of a MIDI controller to control pitch slider of a DJ-program (e.g. Virtual DJ)
- you want to use sliders or knobs of a MIDI controller to control cut-off of a VST synth.
- I suppose almost any midi controller is 7-bit so it has abt. 128 steps. If you map +-10% pitch to only 128 steps, it is virtually impossible to do accurate beatmatching with the decks, so the resolution of the slider and controller message should be much higher, e.g. 16-bit.
- you have similar problem if you try to fine-tune a filter cut-off in a certain frequency band. You might then hear the steps, or you hear the cut-off changing in steps instead of changing continuously. So very fine cut-off adjustments are impossible (especially if you want to do both large and small movements).
- I think the core of the problem is that MIDI standard supports only 7-bit controller messages (with the exception of pitch bend?).
So if I want to remote control DJ-program pitch (without time code system of Serato or similar program), does there exist any "nonstandard" controller that would make this possible, or any other tweak to make it possible (e.g. using simultaneously 2 MIDI controllers, one low bits, one high bits from a single slider)
It is just difficult to believe that there wouldn't be a solution to these problems, even that they have existed for so long. The applications for fine 16-bit or 24-bit control are numerous. I know there is suppose to come a new HD-MIDI standard, but it was coming "soon" already in 2005, so I suppose that it will take eternity for this standard to come (or is there other evidence..?)
Does there exist any other controller format than MIDI that would solve these problems? maybe just plugging 6 USB mouses simultaneously, and mapping X and Y axis of extra mouses for control ?-D
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
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Posted : Nov 18, 2008 05:00
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Quote:
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On 2008-11-18 03:52:45, golem wrote:
- I think the core of the problem is that MIDI standard supports only 7-bit controller messages (with the exception of pitch bend?).
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I don't know. I use my Andromeda to control stuff. It sends out NRPN values on all knobs. (16384 values). Cakewalk Sonar shows the NRPN controls of all soft synths. Works fine. (Some soft synths remap that to 128 values. They suck and I avoid them.  ).
Steinberg (at least in Cubase SX) don't quite seem to understand NRPN so I avoid their software too.
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I know there is suppose to come a new HD-MIDI standard, but it was coming "soon" already in 2005, so I suppose that it will take eternity for this standard to come (or is there other evidence..?)
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There is no need for a new standard. On the other hand there is need for some software developers to implement what already exists for more than two decades...
UnderTow |
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 18, 2008 09:53
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what you mean is already there with msb and lsb. rpn and nrpn also work like that, the programm just has to support it.
this way you have 14bit instead of 7bit. its kinda the same way the pitchbend controller works, just with 2 combined controller messages.
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the daleks
The Daleks
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Posted : Nov 19, 2008 05:00
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Nov 19, 2008 19:43
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Quote:
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On 2008-11-18 09:53, MadScientist wrote:
what you mean is already there with msb and lsb. rpn and nrpn also work like that, the programm just has to support it.
this way you have 14bit instead of 7bit. its kinda the same way the pitchbend controller works, just with 2 combined controller messages.
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+1
Controller 0 and 32 are MSB and LSB for Bank Select
Controller 1 and 33 are MSB and LSB for Modulation Wheel
Controller 2 and 34 are MSB and LSB for Breath Control
...and so on.
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assaf
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 20, 2008 00:13
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seems like you are not so golem |
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Mesq
Reality Pixie
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34
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671
Posted : Nov 20, 2008 03:06
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Actually OSC (Open Sound Control) uses float point rather than integer. If developers started to recognise this as standard then it would be really fantastic. Its the natural progression from MIDI.
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golem
IsraTrance Full Member
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109
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Posted : Nov 22, 2008 05:26
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So solutions seem to be
- NRPN
- 14-bit Control Change Messages
- Pitch-bend (14-bit)
So the next question is: which cheap MIDI controller support sending knob or slider data in some of these 14-bit forms? Preferably 14-bit CC as Ableton Live seems not to support NPRN.
I have M-Audio X-Session Pro, but I could not find if you can somehow program it to transmit 14-bit messages.
Although it is designed for DJ-control, so it would be absurd to have 7-bit pitch-control. Just not possible. |
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Hidra
Hidra
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5
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Posted : Nov 22, 2008 06:08
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"So if I want to remote control DJ-program pitch (without time code system of Serato or similar program), does there exist any "nonstandard" controller that would make this possible, or any other tweak to make it possible (e.g. using simultaneously 2 MIDI controllers, one low bits, one high bits from a single slider) "
Novation remote series can do it...
just use the editor to change the type of data a specefic knob send
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Mesq
Reality Pixie
Started Topics :
34
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671
Posted : Nov 24, 2008 07:51
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I actually don't see what your issue is here... sorry. |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
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Posted : Nov 24, 2008 13:58
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Quote:
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On 2008-11-24 07:51, Mesq wrote:
I actually don't see what your issue is here... sorry.
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It seems to be bad MIDI implementation by M-Audio and Ableton. (I don't use either so I am just basing this on the information provided by golem).
UnderTow |
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