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out of curiousity, How many of you guys make a good living with music alone?
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the daleks
The Daleks
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
584
Posted : Apr 15, 2008 09:34
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Quote:
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On 2008-04-15 08:27, bukboy wrote:
I was tongue in cheek 
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thats a relief...
well let me tell you something then and let this thread get hijacked further..
America has had the world by the balls for 50 years now, it taint Bush and Cheney who are genius's believe me.. they're just building off of some actor presidents idea, which is nothing new either. so please don't exalt them, they're just goonboys for a larger establishment of greed and ego.
i find it kind of demeaning that you would refer to indigenous peoples in 'underdeveloped countries' as stupid. like the indian chicks in the amazon who are forced into prostitution after their villages are run over by land developers can be referred to as stupid, just because they aren't able to get a grip on this new system that is thrust at them? rather I tend to think that they have no other choice as they are not given many choices, and just grin and bear it as we humans do. If you examine carefully exploitation can be defined as simply the taking advantage of someones innocence. innocence and stupidity are some different things. actually I think the real stupidity lies with your friends Bush and Cheney because look what mess they've gotten us into when they could have done much better with the resources they were given. mark my words they will be regarded as the worst leaders in recent US politics up there with Nixon and LBJ.
nice that you are not advocating exploitation though, and you are right awareness is the key. i would take it a step futher and say, if someone is not aware that they are being exploited, give them a helping hand. easy for us to rise above it but maybe not so easy for the ones being exploited, especially if they are not aware. but then again they may be aware, but just can't help it.
yeah we can be just biological robots or another form of cockroach, we can also be angels or devils, saints or sinners, spirit travellers, guides, teachers, murderers, captains, etc etc, the fact that we can imagine such things makes us more I believe, but yeah we could just be bacteria on a rock. Personally though, I find that view kind of boring, and your're not going to really know either way...
  Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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the daleks
The Daleks
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
584
Posted : Apr 15, 2008 09:48
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really though, I get what you are saying, and while at the polar end of the dry spectrum, I believe it is very important to see and understand the whole spectrum of views, while not necessary to agree, at least to understand the thinking
checking your post again, let me clarify though, I didn't say outside of market forces, I said dependent, which is entirely different. For example a company that has enough backing can make its products and set a trend that the market follows, or if it has a tigher margin it must react to the market and try to compete. The latter would be more dependent on the market as it would not have the margins available for R&D, etc. Both companies would still be 'dependent on market forces' for raw materials etc, but anyway I hope you can get the difference I am talking about without having to write a economics book about it
however it is still possible to be 'outside the market' although it may at times be a lonely place
also, without poor people who is going to go and fight the war(s)? The draft will not get reinstated in the US without major social upheaval, so it becomes necessary to propogate the poor and desparate for these purposes. This is not utilitarian or good in any sense of the word, and I believe is carefully calculated within government policies for this end. People are gonna get tired of it though, and are getting tired already, and then your going to see some changes, and might even be up to your neck in hippies and peacelovers  Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Apr 15, 2008 10:50
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I can understand the view that Bukboy is trying to get accross, that people are opportunists most of the time and that this is the reason why a lot of things are the way they are: the question is not "why", but "why not". However, people share a lot of values, most of these are not generated culturally, but evolutionary: they don't want to be in pain, raped, killed etc., they want to be able to earn a living and they want a sustainable future for their kids. When you go against these basic principles and kill, rape, rob, enslave, exploit etc., you are an immoral criminal who will generate, pain, anger that will take a long time to heal. Also, your offspring will probably wind up with the task of fixing up the mess or experiencing the rebound. If you are talking about awareness, people are perfectly aware at the single person, single generation level, but are totally unaware at the across-person, across-generation level and this is why it's such a mess on this bacteria ridden rock. |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Apr 15, 2008 12:15
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"The world is a darwinian cluster fuck" - Bukboy
The ancient greeks were famous for being the fathers of philosophy. The way they got to have so much free time on their hands is by having a citizen to slave ratio of 1:1000. But we all consider the ancient greeks to be a GREAT culture.
You dudes are hung up on "what is right is what is fair". Fact from nature is what is right is what works and helps u survive better than your neighbour.
What is fair is just one side of the coin.
Think about it from a perspective. At the heart of the conflict is that cultures are competing for scarce resources. Superior cultures win and inferior ones lose. In israel the israelis are superior in wealth and intellect to the palestinians and guess whats happening there? In the end no-one will remember or care the displaced palestinians just like no-one remembers the american indians. People just carry on with life.
Think about it, who owns the planet or the land? no-one has a title deed which is not backed up by a government. How does government back it up? By force. "Ownership" is a human concept and assumption. which means no-one really really owns anything, they just own it in relation to other people. Now the big question, why should a population of migrants own oil fields just because of the random chance that they migrated there and stayed? What gives em the title deed to the wells? Why shouldnt a more powerful culture take it away from them?
Human rights is not a "survival of the fittest" concept. Its an excuse by weaker cultures to get special treatment.
And in the real world where people really need to get fed, and really need to have homes the job of a politician is to provide period.
U guys need to get over thinking that people are special. they are bacteria in the grand scheme of things. They are important only in relation to each other.
And the really controversial bit? literate people are worth more than illiterate people. |
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the daleks
The Daleks
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
584
Posted : Apr 15, 2008 12:44
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Bukboy, you must really live in some kind of backwater... have you travelled the world, been to other countries? have you been to the US?
the Amercan Indians are alive and well, as well the mayans and aztecs are remembered despite the fact they were defeated by some other power or caved in on themselves.
for your big question "why should a population of migrants own oil fields just because of the random chance that they migrated there and stayed?"
right on! the US government should reclaim its oil fields from the populations of migrants that settled in Texas and stayed. We'll have to wait for the next president to raise that idea though, as Bush probably wont go for it..
i dont quite get your value of superior or inferior cultures, it has little to do with having a superior military or police. I guess Hitler was superior for awhile...
or about human rights?? its an internationally set definition of standards like the Geneva convention attempting to set moral standards for governments. this is actually a part of human evolution and survival of the fittest, because some smart altruistic people realized that in order for us to really survive we have to respect others right to live and not be tortured, etc. anyway, todays despot is tommorrows head on a stick, so there is no escape from karma in the end.
nothing controversial with what you say, its just kind of silly. of course educated people are worth more than non-educated people in terms of economic ability. the investment into the education defines the value of human capital.
U need to get over thinking that people are bacteria. they are special in the grand scheme of things. 
well, i'm kinda trolled out today, so going home. peace!
Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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the daleks
The Daleks
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
584
Posted : Apr 15, 2008 12:47
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Apr 15, 2008 12:58
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I only meant there is no grand scheme.
superior cultures are better at surviving. Thats about it. In whatever way they choose to, whether thru peace (what is the sound of one had clapping (sadly theres no emoticon for masturbation)) or thru conquest.
Jeremy Bentham - "human rights are nonsense and universal human rights are nonsense on stilts" I think thats how it goes. |
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Apr 15, 2008 13:57
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On 2008-04-15 12:58, bukboy wrote:
I only meant there is no grand scheme.
superior cultures are better at surviving. Thats about it. In whatever way they choose to, whether thru peace (what is the sound of one had clapping (sadly theres no emoticon for masturbation)) or thru conquest.
Jeremy Bentham - "human rights are nonsense and universal human rights are nonsense on stilts" I think thats how it goes.
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Superior cultures eh ? There's an interesting book on this subject, if you're interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel
As for Jeremy Bentham, he wrote his ideas long before the concept of evolution emerged (he died in 1832 and On the origin of species was published in 1859). My guess is that he was not informed regarding an important factor in the origin of ethics. |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Apr 15, 2008 13:59
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Apr 15, 2008 14:15
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On 2008-04-15 13:59, Colin OOOD wrote:
My cat's breath smells of catfood.
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 I guess he'll be ignoring you then ?
But I agree... the feeding must stop. |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Apr 15, 2008 15:00
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Boobytrip that does seem like a cool book.
But reading the wiki I dont think it really discounts any of what Ive said.
I should add one thing though to cultural superioriity and that is amount and sophistication of memes, which evolve themselves, and add survival benefits to the carriers.(forgot to include info tech)
In any case Id be interested in knowing Y you (guys) think a culture which is strong shouldnt exploit a weaker one for its own growth? Why does the feeding have to end? Its how its always been. And based on the nature of life, will always be. |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Apr 15, 2008 16:03
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Ive actually already thought of a reason Y Im more correct than you ethics boys. Namely because if the strong dont prey on the weak then the whole species will become weak. |
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Seppa
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
485
Posted : Apr 15, 2008 16:43
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to all lost souls here:
Are you guys fuckin kidding ! this is the music creation section,
If you posively feel the need to discuss politics and ethics find yourself another forum or section! |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Apr 15, 2008 17:51
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Apr 15, 2008 21:04
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On 2008-04-15 16:03, bukboy wrote:
Ive actually already thought of a reason Y Im more correct than you ethics boys. Namely because if the strong dont prey on the weak then the whole species will become weak.
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You just hold tight my predating friend... Soon human predation will be just an expose in museum of human history together with your mechanical cosmology view that is completely obsolete since the discovery of quantum mechanics.
But I support diversity... that way we make use of your mistakes by not repeating it our selves. So this is really my way of saying thank you for taking such a bitter and deteriorating role in our society 
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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