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out of curiousity, How many of you guys make a good living with music alone?
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
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Posts :
549
Posted : Apr 9, 2008 13:33
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Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction.
Albert Einstein
I think this sums it up quite well. It's not hard to guess what will be recognized as valuable, it's more a statistical task than musical. If you statistically decide what kind of music to make in order to be perceived as valuable... is it really making a music or it's more like generating another generic release?
In my opinion the quest is to make music you like without thinking about market value. Than what you do is really music. As soon as you start making decisions and following statistics than it's just business as usual. If you work in the factory producing ceramic dishes you don't consider your self to be a potter... don't you. It's just another job on the assembly line.
Long time ago I decided to separate money and music... they don't get along quite well. I work 2-3 hrs a day doing graphic design and consulting. That pays the rent, food, equipment and whatever I need. The rest of the day I can make music without having to think about will others find my music to be of any value. For me making music is all about joy of making it, not about making money.
When you dance... are you trying to get to the other side of the room? Or you're dancing simply to enjoy dancing? And is it the same thing to dance for the joy of dancing and to dance when we pay you to dance for us? Do you enjoy it the same when we say to you that we want you to dance in a certain way and restrict your dance only to movements we like?
You see... that's how you chase away all the joy from art by trying to make money on it. At the end of the day you nether have money nor you've enjoyed making music free from the constrains of others people convention about value of your music.
  "It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
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803
Posted : Apr 9, 2008 13:40
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its not a question of making music. Its a question of making art and becoming an artist and raising urself up in the world as well. |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Apr 9, 2008 13:47
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On 2008-04-09 12:46, bukboy wrote:
let me rephrase, The task of a "successful" artist. i.e. one favoured by evolution, is to generate a form of music that the mass will find valuable(willing to trade their work for it)
self professed "art" without value is not art. They have to get paid to get that label.
People are gonna now say van gogh made art intrinsically that was only discovered later. Irony is that it demonstrably only became art when it was discovered, until then it was trash that no-one would consider buying.
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You really need to expand your perspective. Art was "discovered" long time before we invented money.
Art is a nonverbal expression of one's impressions. Getting paid for it is not what makes it art... you pay for electricity that will make you feel good in the end providing you with light, warmth and it will play you music from CD player... does that make electricity art?
C'mon... put your thinking cap on 
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Apr 9, 2008 13:58
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Quote:
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On 2008-04-09 13:40, bukboy wrote:
its not a question of making music. Its a question of making art and becoming an artist and raising urself up in the world as well.
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Maybe there's something ambitious and proud and wrong in aspiring to be an artist... to raise "your self" up in the world... to be recognized by others as something that you are not. Because the world now perceives you as you are... By making us see you in a different way you your self will not be any different... that would be just an illusion, and you will know that it is just an illusion. So that's quite wrong way of thinking about art... it's more like ego trip than art really.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Apr 9, 2008 14:00
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dude I think u have missed my point. U spat on it and discounted it like as if it was crap, while presenting no opinion of your own but skepticism. Fuck U! |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
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549
Posted : Apr 9, 2008 14:12
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this is weird... the absence of my opinion somehow resulted in hurting your feelings. We're missing something, and what we miss is what you project on the absence of my opinion... or maybe I had an opinion but you're not able to see it just as you can't touch the tip of your finger with the tip of that same finger?
You're standing in the way of your own self. You want to see your self as you see others but that's impossible. You'll always need others to see who you are and you'll never be like others, because others being different from you is what makes you exist in the first place. Struggle as much as you want but that will never change.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Apr 9, 2008 14:16
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shove ur mumbo jumbo |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
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549
Posted : Apr 9, 2008 14:45
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you have a nice day also 
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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Mindfly
Mindfly
Started Topics :
15
Posts :
189
Posted : Apr 9, 2008 15:35
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On 2008-04-03 10:49, shamantrixx wrote:
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On 2008-03-22 11:48, heretical wrote:
you almost certainly will profoundly disagree with yourself when you are older...
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hard likely... There is no one single reason why life should really go on. People just believe that it is important to continue living as long as it's possible. More often than not they live unhappy, frustrated, worried, afraid, attached and they have jobs that they don't like. What's the point in living that kind of life? Why should I change my mind? The older I am the less I believe in that utterly stupid concept of "life MUST go on".
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Well, I most certainly would like to live for as long as possible, and see my daughter grow up and have children of her own (if she should have a desire for it)... 
Children changes everything - so if you tend to live by your statement, don't get children.
You are beautiful, no matter what they say! |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Apr 9, 2008 15:40
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shamantrixx your graphic design is art too dont bullshit
"art and money dont fit together"
then why your photoshop work you do charge ????
or music is more art then painting
or that there is a way to do WHATEVER YOU WANT in this world
btw when i make the music i dont think at money at all.. just when someone is offerring me to realese it for sale , just then i ask my godamm part of this money... offcourse i create without connection weather it will ever realese or not (most not realese i make too much.. tho i have over 40 tracks out there)
anywayz for me its all positive , i do whatever i like to and hey the world like to pay me for that , sometimes dont even need to ask for it , and what to do sometime party or cd is easy way for someone to make money and then again i want my share of it .. you know peaple come to see the artist not the decoration the light fx or the amazingt pioneer deck right?
also labels , why should they make money anyhow ? i can realese my own thing right? DIY lol
but then i cant be as proffessinal in sell the cds and distro. etc.... or if i do then no time to make new music..
so the world work in a way i make it label sell it and we splitt the money
well im tired explain how things realy work and will keep working , reality check for your idea.
but GET THIS: its not BETTER or WORSE
no GOOD vs BAD
no MY IDEA vs YOUR IDEA
the original idea is the same , only i stopped dream and start real life on planet earth , mars was more fun but i had no $ to buy myself treats and electronic toys , for the holy grail of making better music
its just the real way it is.
btw i bet einstein dont like dark , more into the minimal club scene ha? www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
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549
Posted : Apr 9, 2008 17:50
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Are you sure that labels call you and not the other way around?
Anyway, my photoshop work is not art. I have rules to follow, and choices made by others. I have to follow the trends, fit into medium and format... my job is to create certain feelings... not just any feeling I would like to create in the mind of the poeple who see my graphics. I'm paid for specific results... as well as any track that you manage to release fits into the labels expectations.
One thing you're right thou... this debate has no future since you have to defend your position in order to maintain your self image. And spin it any way you like but behind all that spin is nothing but good old ego trip of being special and different while it's clear that you're just a replaceable work station along the assembly line. All those compilations and parties would be happening even without you... won't they?
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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Fragletrollet
Fragletrollet
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
1748
Posted : Apr 10, 2008 06:14
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Apr 10, 2008 06:22
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On 2008-04-09 17:50, shamantrixx wrote:
Are you sure that labels call you and not the other way around?
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yes today thats the situation what so hard to believe, just in the last 2 months i got 5 diffrent offers to realese in v/a's and guess what no its not all fits to label sound and only 2 tracks will realy realese out of this... and yes offcourse ill get paid for them , that never been the issue only the sounds..
in the past i had to introduce myself as well i will keep doing that , since i cant expect peaple to hear about evryone right?? where from?? there are thousands of artists and even the best of them sending tracks to labels. realese by my own is option still altho it will take alot of sources that i can put into the music itself.
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Anyway, my photoshop work is not art. I have rules to follow, and choices made by others. I have to follow the trends, fit into medium and format... my job is to create certain feelings... not just any feeling I would like to create in the mind of the poeple who see my graphics. I'm paid for specific results... as well as any track that you manage to release fits into the labels expectations.
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yes but no one direct me from the begin , neither asked me to do it , defintly not in certain way never!
and never paid for sound they dont heard b4!
maybe your graphic is not art ok with that i can agree but the reason you mention are far far from me and my music.. what you say is more like my job wich is still artistic (light tech - playing with colors , but for someone in a way he want it to be)
if u think i was to fit trends then defintly you never heard my album , my music is still same style like i did 7 years ago only with more mature way to introduce stuff and way better production.. well ill be happy to hear artist that remind my music , still havent found one. trends? psytrance? dude , if i wanted only money i would produce hiphop and commercial house sure not psy but what to do this is my passion
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One thing you're right thou... this debate has no future since you have to defend your position in order to maintain your self image. And spin it any way you like but behind all that spin is nothing but good old ego trip of being special and different while it's clear that you're just a replaceable work station along the assembly line. All those compilations and parties would be happening even without you... won't they?
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no it wont. they would be something else.
classics v/a's like SCHIZM or SNAP CRACKLE DROP would defintly not be the same even if you change one single track... includ evryone not just me , then here your ego trip thpeory disapear... evryone is equaly important imo , not equaly unimportant like you think.
as well parties.. just for general idea i dont think events where i playd as main act would even had the same lineup to fit to my music , it would turn hole diffrent thing.. sure that parties happen without me or anyone specific but its not always the same , and to create the magic of psytrance happen well.. not even the music alone will do it , but have major part of it that i do feel i have a unique place in.
anywayz its very simple what peaple find valuable they will pay for.
and in order to make my music valuable to peaple i spend alot of money and time and hard work and i see it coming back slowly to the point i might be able to get me more synths and better laptop and you can keep saying whatever you want i know my sounds say it all , and will be much better in the future when i have new ideas (this is spirit wise) and also better studio (and this is money wise)
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www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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psylevation
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
Posts :
841
Posted : Apr 10, 2008 10:23
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The most important part for me is that I enjoy what I'm doing and feel good about it. Someone may call it this or that but honestly it really is just a matter of opinion and what you personally are okay with. Many people are getting upset about some calling what you do something else, in all honesty it doesn't matter unless you think there is something wrong with it yourself.
*cha-ching* < my 2 cents
~Airyck~
~Unoccupied Mind ~
Psyowa! |
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Apr 10, 2008 10:37
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Best thread ever.
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