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out of curiousity, How many of you guys make a good living with music alone?
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cytopia
Cytopia.org
Started Topics :
61
Posts :
329
Posted : Apr 5, 2008 16:01
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Material values do suck, money in and of itself does not have to be a problem. I would suggest you read about Spiral Dynamics as a model for the stages of development of shared values, the money obsessed values you describe are orange meme. We are not all orange meme. You might find the model interesting, since you have consistantly showed interest in the subject (values, development and what the right thing to do is).
Sincerely,
Sander
  Cytopia.org
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Apr 5, 2008 16:10
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One comment to Shamantrixx's simplistic world view: Research Warren Edward Buffett. He is the richest man in the world (so probably the best counter example available).
Buffet achieved his fortune by hard work and investing in companies (aka capitalism) yet he does it in a way that respects the companies (instead of the "chopping up and selling the parts for profit" that many capital investors practise) and tries to protect the workers and intrinsic values of those companies.
Or look at TATA from India. There are many examples that prove your views to be simplistic, lacking in nuance and uneducated.
UnderTow
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
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549
Posted : Apr 6, 2008 03:41
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I guess we have quite different views about education. Since I have actually quoted few quite well respected individuals like Erich Fromm and Noam Chomsky. But i guess you're better educated than both of them although you've never read a single line from any of those book, and both have many volumes on that subject. Since you actually didn't bother to read quite basic literature on the subject of ethics and politics it is quite ignorant of you to even try to bring out the question of education.
But anyhow... being educated is not an argument even if it's true. Educated person can argue about facts rather than argue about education of his opponents. Because first thing that educated people learn is what education is.
Anyone who tries to make a distinction between education and entertainment doesn't know the first thing about either.
Marshall McLuhan
Unlike Fromm who was involved in ethics and Chomsky who deals with semiotics, linguistics and politics, McLuhan was interested in mass media, politics, mass advertising and history.
So one wonders... what kind of education do you have? What did you read? Newspapers?
Since you obviously missed all of them as well as the complete fields that they represent it's not surprising to see you arguing about my education since there is nothing else you can attack beside that.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Apr 6, 2008 15:21
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for personal life in this world money is good thing and dont try make it look like its not.
if you had million dollars to share then you could speak but probably you dont and just want someone else to share with you hs milion
ontopic , i live not from music alone at all working as well but there is money coming in from music and it helps to work less and have more time for making music as well for better equipment. offcourse it only comes after about 5 years around the scene and spend evrything i had on the equipment to begin with www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Apr 6, 2008 20:00
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On 2008-04-05 15:19, shamantrixx wrote:
The ones who are explicitly unable to see that the more you have the less others have because money can not be eaten nor does it covers you from rain. It's just a means for buying stuff. OK? But "stuff" is of earth, wood, plants, iron.... right? And there is only ONE earth with so much stuff on it... right? And who's exactly entitled to sell the earth for money? Was it not here long before we came about?
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huh?? what a load of crap... sincerely... and your avatar sucks
roll a joint or STFU :) |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Apr 6, 2008 22:25
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I thank you for your well argued and fact-based comments as well as for your professional opinion on my financial situation and "beauty" of my avatar. Both are extremely relevant to the subject and you've been so helpful during this brief demonstration showing us clearly what are the true arguments behind your positions.
You can expect my next replay as soon as you manage to back up your opinions with some facts or at least with a decent answers that would explain the situation in a logical way different from my explanation. Until then please do feel free to continue with your little demonstration of ignorance.
@ elad: concern for personal life to the extent when that concern decreases the quality of life of other people has a specific scientific term... it's called parasitism! "It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Apr 6, 2008 22:45
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Quote:
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On 2008-04-05 16:01, cytopia wrote:
Material values do suck, money in and of itself does not have to be a problem. I would suggest you read about Spiral Dynamics as a model for the stages of development of shared values, the money obsessed values you describe are orange meme. We are not all orange meme. You might find the model interesting, since you have consistantly showed interest in the subject (values, development and what the right thing to do is).
Sincerely,
Sander
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I have briefly look at the book last night but the philosophy is quite complex and requires a detailed examination before I can say anything about it. It sounds quite right on the surface because it's aimed in quite practical direction that would use existing system in a different way. So it seems to be quite good. So far I have just two concernes about it... one minor and one major.
Minor one is the fact that start of philosophy is based on a need to survive in a hostile and alien world we live in. I don't agree that the world is hostile nor alien to us. We are of this world and we don't need to fight it. But maybe it's just careless figure of speech and has nothing to do with their attitude on nature and the character of the world. To find that out I'll have to read complete book.
Major concern is not related to method that they suggest but rather to how we're going to force the system to work differently when the system is under control of power, and power will not consider giving it self away. The power will (as always) use power in order to stay in power. And that's a major problem thou it lies outside the philosophy of "spiraling dynamics".
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Apr 7, 2008 00:20
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Knowledge, schmoledge...
Every week millions of scientific and other articles are published that took years of investigation or meditation by extremely well educated writers. With this enormous body of knowledge in mind, i can only speculate about how little i have actually read of it all. Even if i had an eternal live it would be pretty hard to memorize it all. Each person knows almost nothing. So IMO its smarter to concentrate on how to feel at peace with yourself and the world than to try and outsmart your fellow ignorant human souls. Anyway, I wish i had invested more time in figuring out how to make a living out of the music i love than in figuring out how to make money by selling second hand bullshit. |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Apr 7, 2008 02:10
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shamatrixx you funny dude
are you actualy talking on anarcho-socialism ??
this is rediculus to think its possible in a world full of shit like this..
quoting theory maybe nice but i know the way of life and i know how wrong it is and not to say fake. unless you are completly vegan not using technology at all eat your own carrot and potato (can you realy do it??) but if not and you use gas like evrybody and electricity and not share your all income with hungry peaple then its just theory and nothing more.
you are consuming the world like evryone else just pretend to be better for your own ego. one day you will see.. i used to protest and even went for major demonstrations in europe and arrested for protesting for this (G8 convention) but fuck it its all bullshit all the peaple say thet just cause they have nothing and need to blame someone and what easy more then to blame those who have instead work harder think harder and just make your own reality www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Apr 7, 2008 05:30
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you got very wrong picture about what I'm talking about as well as what it would be like to live the way I feel we should. So far we didn't even discuss.
We don't need to abandon technology nor do we all have to be vegans... This is a classical response of a person who's thinking in the dialectic manner for too long time. There's more than 2 ways to choose from. It's not like we have to go from one extreme to another... there is a vast middle for us to choose between what you've described and where we live now.
Just to use the money spent on wars and weapons we'd be able to feed everybody on the planet and provide them with electricity, fresh water and medical attention. In order to do that we first have to switch from competitive to cooperative mode.
By all means, please read the book called "zero sum games". It's by far the best book written on this subject in a long time. It is a theory based on economy. There is a way to keep the economy going and solve the problems. I'm not suggesting that we should go back to caves and hunting and gathering. But as long as you don't look at the facts and models you will always feel the way you do now. Nobody has to loose anything and we can all benefit. All it takes is to change the way we interact and work.
It's going to happen anyway... weather you like it or not. The vast majority of the people have nothing more to lose and informations are becoming more available day by day... The world is changing fast. Just look at all the fuss raised about China '08 games all around the world... it's not going to stop. People are ready to make a change... it's inevitable.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Apr 7, 2008 05:37
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Quote:
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On 2008-04-07 00:20, Boobytrip wrote:
Knowledge, schmoledge...
Every week millions of scientific and other articles are published that took years of investigation or meditation by extremely well educated writers. With this enormous body of knowledge in mind, i can only speculate about how little i have actually read of it all. Even if i had an eternal live it would be pretty hard to memorize it all. |
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I agree, but I'm not the one who brought up the subject of education.
Any by the way.... one doesn't have to know everything in order to behave in ethical manners and live a better life. It takes to know quite little to be able to do that. Far less than it takes to survive in the way we do just now.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Apr 7, 2008 12:56
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On 2008-04-07 05:37, shamantrixx wrote:
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I agree, but I'm not the one who brought up the subject of education.
Any by the way.... one doesn't have to know everything in order to behave in ethical manners and live a better life. It takes to know quite little to be able to do that. Far less than it takes to survive in the way we do just now.
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I agree, i only meant to say that intentions follow feelings. The intention, in turn, determines to what purpose knowledge is presented. I sometimes get the feeling that you are fairly rigid in your statements and that you use knowledge with the purpose of defending yourself. However, as far as i can see there often is no-one attacking. Also i tried to bring accross that it is really a bit strange to be so rigid about so called facts, since we know so little. Even if you study a subject for 10 years, progress is made in ways of thinking all the time and in 30 years the knowledge you had will have been replaced by more accurate and usable descriptions.
Don't get me wrong, i respect you and i understand that you really aren't a nasty twit  I just think that some people read your posts and feel that they are being regarded as ignorant morons, who are blinded from THE truth. Although i am starting to dislike the use of voice samples more and more, i still agree with the one in Zodiac Youth's Atoms track: "reality does not exist".
Peace. |
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mk47
Inactive User
Started Topics :
118
Posts :
4444
Posted : Apr 7, 2008 13:33
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money = good .. whats wrong with u idiots ?
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makus
Overdream
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
3087
Posted : Apr 7, 2008 17:31
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Apr 7, 2008 18:28
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On 2008-04-07 12:56, Boobytrip wrote:
Don't get me wrong, i respect you and i understand that you really aren't a nasty twit I just think that some people read your posts and feel that they are being regarded as ignorant morons, who are blinded from THE truth. Although i am starting to dislike the use of voice samples more and more, i still agree with the one in Zodiac Youth's Atoms track: "reality does not exist".
Peace.
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Well, reality is quite a complex term and arguing that it does not exist while we can not escape experiencing it makes little sense.
On the other hand, since money is a symbol and as such it is a human invention - arguing that it is good or bad is to be blinded from the truth... isn't it? Further more the concept of good and bad is also just a perceptual concept based on arbitrary values bit still many insist on the claim that money is good. It takes like 5 working brain cells to see that such a statement is an oksymoron.
So is it really my way of expression that leaves the impression of arguing with "ignorant morons blinded from truth" or is it possible that sometimes it is the case?
There is no music without science, no science without mathematics, no mathematics without philosophy, no philosophy without religion and no religion without music. Yet the vast majority of "artists" knows nothing about any of those. Now days it is all just a matter of being able to copy what others did before and improving it in a technical way with minor modifications in content. Art is a non verbal expression of impressions and the latter is the capacity to understand the world around us. Without that capacity the is no art. Correct me if I'm wrong.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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