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out of curiousity, How many of you guys make a good living with music alone?
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Jun 24, 2008 12:07
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Ok Im going to TRY to be less of an asshole.
Upavas -
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| " you imply that evolution is logical. No life is logical. " |
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>> I do not imply this. What I want is a logical argument which discounts my prepositions objectively, and comes to a superior conclusion.
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| "So it is entirely up to you (and everyone else for that matter), you can choose the path of power and you can choose a path of peace, the end of it is certain, one day the train will come and you will have to leave everything behind.
You can either leave happy and fulfilled, content for a life of fun, you can also die unfulfilled, because no amount of power you have accumulated will ever be enough to satisfy you.
So why not leave all your logic clutter behind and join the party?" |
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>> This is not a discussion about personal choices but about the results of societies based on competing principles. Again to reiterate I am irrelevant, and this line of reasoning is irrelevant.
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| "There are plenty of ancient culture that managed to live in the kind of balance I was talking about. They thrived for millenia all over the place. No global warming, no hunger and no will to power. Unfortunately no synthesizers either, however, they had trance parties as well..." |
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>>And no competition from more advanced societies like I am arguing for Im willing to bet.
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| "On another note you imply what I am proposing is a hippie culture. Where did you get the idea from that that is how hippies live?" |
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>> I suppose after meeting many hippies, the only conclusion I can come to is that they are completely disconnected from reality. Evidence for this is that they prefer to build castles in the sky to cover up for that they are less in control of their lives, live in worse conditions, Have to be at the whim of more powerful forces, instead of deciding that they will decide their place to live and conditions instead of other people.
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| "On yet another note. I am frantically trying to decide if I should get an analog synth or a surround setup, dang..." |
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>>I feel your pain. 
Kitnam -
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| "you try to be objectivly which is impossible for you since you are a human beeing as everyone else. you just have an opinion inside of your construction of thinking about the world, which seems logical inside of your building only. and every day you try to pick up things to make your building more comfortable. thats all. you are man inside of 4 walls. you say "open minded"..." |
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>> Just because we all have opinions does not mean that all of them do not have self consistent, well reasoned , well argued, based in objective reality with overwhelming evidence premises and conclusions. Opinions are not necessarily worthless and subjective only.
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| "open minded doesnt mean, that other people have to say yes to your 4-walls-world-argues. it means that every person has to step out of his picture and look on things without evaluation, for you and for anyone else." |
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>> complete agreement, but that goes both ways, Noone is even willing to consider never mind tolerate my point of view.
Quote:
| "and if you would be so free of personal evaluation and be as objective and free as you like to say, then i ask why your way of talking to people sometimes pops up some aggressive acts ("dump assholes bla bla") which is a clear sign that something inside of you is driven by pure stress and you try to release this stress while you like to flame some people here onboard" |
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>> It is my reasoned opinion that many people on this board have no critical skills, or communication skills for that matter, and get very frustrated, I am after all only human.
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| " - i also think you picked up a tranceboard because you know that the people here always try to be respectull to each other which makes it easier for people like you to fool around. i know you very well - bla bla maschines looking for attention. go to daddy and take a hug - this has nothing to do with music production." |
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>> This is just speculation, I didnt pick the tranceboard for grandstanding. I learn a lot of usefull insights on this board about music production. However the question asked i.e. about money, does indeed impact on more than just music but also about ontological realities, And I disagree wholeheartedly with the make believe based on faith comments that many people make here. Which Is why I refuse to back down, simply because I will not bow down to irrational discourse and superstitious crap.
By the way, Im a militant atheist. And I dont have to tolerate religious faith dark age thinking that has no objective roots except to promote false unreasoned make believe.
On the flip side of the coin, if anyone can present reasoned arguments why I am wrong, then I will join you coz I cant beat you. |
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Kitnam
Mantik
Started Topics :
110
Posts :
1151
Posted : Jun 24, 2008 12:25
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too many points here, about what we want to talk about?
1. opinions vs truth (what is the truth? sum of opinions?)
2. do have people on the tranceboard communication-skills?
3. your reasons of flaming or not flaming
4. religion, arguments why are you wrong. (which theme?)
i have not read the whole discussion (its horrible written, and filled with fighting against each other - sorry not a pleasent read) i just have some points for you in my head. but maybe it would be better if you could rewrite your points with some clear sentences where we can start on - this would prevent misunderstoods to.. best would something which has something to do with music production. would you agree that better music = more money . i would for example disagree to that. choose one.
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the daleks
The Daleks
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
584
Posted : Jun 24, 2008 12:38
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Upavas - good points and well said. i'd go for the analog btw
Bukboy - your arguments are sound, but you forget that we are working on that great experiment right now.. unfortunately alot of what you say is correct about the world, but it is also up to each and everyone of us to push forward. there IS a slow gradual shifting in the paradigms of consciousness, however fragile, that we are coming to. War is becoming less acceptable in the world, and people are being held accountable for their actions. Bush will not be remembered as a great or just president. He may be rich when he dies, but his family will have to live with his legacy for generations, and he will feel that on his deathbed, and probably cry
very true when there are limited resources things get ugly, but after thousands of years of civilization, if you and i found ourselves in the bush, and there was only one chicken for dinner, and it was my chicken, i hope that we could come to something better than fighting about it.
for the discussion, i don't believe anyone makes money from music anymore. in fact i think its delusional to think that you will make money or secure a living making original non-cm destined music. tv killed the radio star and the internet killed rock star. we will see no new music, just an ever increasing nostalgia of aging musicians right up until december 21, 2012
then i have no idea whats going to happen, but something will happen, that i am certain of
pLuR
 Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Jun 24, 2008 13:18
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Point #1 - The basic common necessities of all life forms on planet earth are:
[1.1].Life has a chemical case, therefore it needs the ability to feed on chemical nutrients.
Because if it doesnt feed, then it will die.
[1.2].Life needs the ability to reproduce.
Because if it cannot reproduce that 1 member of that species will eventually die due to accident and the species will be extinct.
Any objections? |
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Kitnam
Mantik
Started Topics :
110
Posts :
1151
Posted : Jun 24, 2008 20:05
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Quote:
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On 2008-06-24 13:18, bukboy wrote:
Point #1 - The basic common necessities of all life forms on planet earth are:
[1.1].Life has a chemical case, therefore it needs the ability to feed on chemical nutrients.
Because if it doesnt feed, then it will die.
[1.2].Life needs the ability to reproduce.
Because if it cannot reproduce that 1 member of that species will eventually die due to accident and the species will be extinct.
Any objections?
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no, go on. but a little additional question; is fire life? because fire has all the abilities you mentioned above. so where is the difference between us and fire, we consider to be "dead" and not living? does not need to beeing answered offcourse, its an old example of argueing that spirituality and love is part of natur & human beeings too.
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mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
2219
Posted : Jun 24, 2008 21:58
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To be honest, I've encountered much worse on other forums of all types of topics. And I love psytrance, but I'm not a hippie. I respect some of the original core ideals, but like all things even that will erode. In the end, at least where I live, senseless capitalism, nihilism, and cocaine (i.e. the 80's) killed what was left of the hippie mindset. Not to say that some facets don't exist, but sometimes it feels like its a shell of it's former self, and as long as there are individuals that feel that they can take advantage of others just because they feel they are entitled to do so, we're just going to continually perpetuate our destruction.
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Jun 24, 2008 22:37
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Neither was I implying logic, nor was I saying that you are irrelevant, you cannot argue for a logical explanation of what is beyond logic. That is my whole point. No matter what you say, there is no logic to it and that is why it cannot be logically explained.
It is that simple... hey all you logic users. Where are the arguments???
Also bukboy, I am far from being a hippie, and I personally have only rarely met a hippie that wasn't busy with his hairstyle or his ego...
And you are wrong, this is entirely a discussion about personal choice, after all I am human and therefor part of evolution, otherwise I would not be here. I can choose any moment as can everyone else. It is ALL about personal choice of each and everyone of us. Yeah man, OUR RESPONSIBILITY< no one elses!!! The fact that each and everyone of us has that choice must be part of evolution. What is logical about it? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING !
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Jun 24, 2008 23:52
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Jun 25, 2008 01:20
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Zoolog
Zoolog
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
783
Posted : Jun 25, 2008 10:09
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Regarding the topic 
Quote:
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On 2008-03-21 11:12, The_Guardians_Of_Truth wrote:
So, if a romanian or bulgarian (for example), can survive with only 200-300 Euro per month, when all the prices are the same as in E.U, how can i complain with more than 1500 Euro income per month ???
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...Erhm just a reminder... all the prices are not the same in EU, come to Denmark and see how far you get from 200 € 
...which leads me back to the original
question: "Can you make a living from this?"
answer: "no, but if i lived in an ex-communist country, i probally could"
www.parvati-records.com |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Jun 25, 2008 10:21
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dudes I do not have enough time to reply to all the voices who are talking different points.
Kitnam - those are the necessary preconditions of life or in fact any continuing chemical process. But I am not trying to establish what life is, I am just identifying its necessary limitations which are relevant to the topic.
Mubali - If youre not a hippy then good, but there are a lot here on isra which is why I want to explain why that philosophy is unsustaineable.
Upavas - Exactly what is beyond logic that you are talking about, because all Im trying to establish is basic necessary features of all life and the contingent limitations which spring therefrom and are valid for any chemically based lifeform. These are not beyond logic. |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Jun 25, 2008 10:30
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Point #2 Inequality of reproduction
[2.1] a reproducing life form does not reproduce identically, whether by accident or design.
[2.2] therefore since lifeforms are not identical, they are not physically equal.
[2.3] Because lifeforms are not physically equal, some will be better/worse at reproduction, and some will be better/worse at feeding. (disablities, or differences which make that lifeform better adapted to environment)
[2.4] Therefore some life forms are PRACTICALLY superior or inferior to the norm
Ok, by the way what does it mean when people say that everyone is equal? |
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Alex Roudos
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
411
Posted : Jun 25, 2008 12:10
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Quote:
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On 2008-06-25 10:30, bukboy wrote:
Ok, by the way what does it mean when people say that everyone is equal?
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I guess this is the zillion euro question!!!
A friend told me once that the biggest mistake we make is that we believe we live, when in reality we are sleeping in the waiting room of life. |
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the daleks
The Daleks
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
584
Posted : Jun 25, 2008 13:11
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when the nazi's raized Warsaw, i guess they were stronger then...
but then the Allied forces struck back, and the Nazi's were defeated
lots of people died, senseless destruction. how does that fit into your world view, bukboy?
power and just about everything else it fleeting and transitory, so get over it. i think i've said that 100 times on this board, and you still don't get it...
people are not equal, or course, but the idea is that everyone should be treated equally. doesnt always happen, and of course there is a gulf between ideal and reality. doesnt mean we should forget about the ideals though and devolve in to corporeal demons...
Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Jun 25, 2008 14:17
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I think there are limits of tolerance to how far you can treat someone equally for multiple real world pragmatic practical reasons, and if one doesn't then the consequences will bite them in the ass.
But lets chat on that later. |
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