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Our (beloved) Planet needs us
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Xolvexs
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
241
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2848
Posted : Jun 28, 2010 20:41
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i believe in esoteric sciences and alchemy which is allows me to believe and trust the invisible the non-measurable--modern science relies heavily on evidence and proof and uses that as its base..esoteric science and alchemy is more about shapeshifting and tranforming and morphing.it does not distinguish things as living and non-living -everything is a living entity- a computer, a cell phone, a human all are living and have life of their own..so fundamentally the orientation is different and if the orientation is different the conclusions and understandings are different...you may not agree with them..you may develop an understanding for reincarnation but until u have been brought up in an environment where reincarnation is a part of day to day life u wont get it..and thats what this whole issue boils down to --the planet is not dying and if you believe it is i believe its reincarnating--and if its reincarnating it has died a long time back and current period the death bed and hence the volcanic eruption was the rebirth of earth ..from my understanding and my belief--scientifically it maybe hard to proove but esoterically its no match for science...so before you tell me i know nothing go revist what you know about what you dont know and break the boundaries of squares, triangles circles numbers lines and formulas and tell me which water is wetter rain water, river water, tap water or the water from melting glaciers? according to your scientific inference
  When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive |
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Boulevard
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
2497
Posted : Jun 28, 2010 20:54
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Quote:
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On 2010-06-28 20:41, Xolvexs wrote:
tell me which water is wetter rain water, river water, tap water or the water from melting glaciers? according to your scientific inference
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Tap Water.......
Mushrooms make you do crazy stuff. Look at Mario he jumps on animal heads and fights with dragons. |
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Xolvexs
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
241
Posts :
2848
Posted : Jun 28, 2010 21:02
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is it because of the moisture or the wind?
theres no wrong answer -
Samsara is the cycle of birth, life, death and rebirth (i.e. reincarnation)
Maya , in Indian religions, has multiple meanings, centered around the concept of "illusion". Maya is the principal deity that manifests, perpetuates and governs the illusion and dream of duality in the phenomenal Universe. When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 01:35
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Xolvexs,
I don’t think there is that much conflict between Western rationalism and Eastern mysticism. It’s just two different ways of looking at the same thing. When Basilisk says “Life on Earth as we know it is about to get seriously screwed because of the global warming” and you say “Living Earth is about to die and be reborn” – there is no real argument there between you two. He is just clarifying that Earth is about to die of high fever, you are adding that it’s just a step in an endless cycle of reincarnation. I don’t see any disagreement here. His argument with you was technical: about “weather” vs. “climate” – the use of terms.
Why don’t we stop playing somebody else’s charade? Let’s just say it like it is: we, humans, are about to get in very serious troubles. All of us. If you don’t care about a massive famine in Sudan, soon you’ll start caring about your private island getting smaller. Why not start thinking about it now?
(Still, as individuals – not as some fascist collective)
It only now occurred to me that this thread is in the Trance forum...
Hmm, OK – let’s use propane generators at parties instead of gasoline. ((C) Shiranui) 
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Xolvexs
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
241
Posts :
2848
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 10:30
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what makes u say eastern is not rational? where do u think 0 came from?
its not about get seriously screwed its just that your attention is being directed there and its being hammered int your head its being indoctrinated -Save the world its going to end- armageddon--the world is coming to end- save it -its being done even before the time of Buddha..every couple thousand years the world comes to a tragic end and then people magically through their greatness make it through and a bright new world emerges and chicken little runs around wearing a army helmet driving a biodiesel jeep and solar powered gps tracking device wanting to save lives with tanks full of nuclear arsenal created by the same scientist community that are telling you that the world is in danger and we can save it ha...hahaha with hahhaaa-some research and some rational--Save what and why? When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 15:16
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I know where “0” comes from. Or the word “algorithm”. East-West is just another false dichotomy, like Democrat-Republican or Spears-Aguilera. First of all, in most of these cases two is actually one. Second, there are always more than two. Yeah, I know numbers here don’t add up. Call it Maine Coon mysticism.
You can argue advantages of one over the other, if you want. I stopped swallowing that bait awhile ago and sincerely wish everybody else the same. It kinda surprised be that you fell for this trap, by the way.
No arguments on the Chicken Little explanation. I hinted to that a couple of times but don’t want to go into it because that would be pure politics. Fascism is an interesting topic. A bit disturbing, once you realize it has very little to do with Hitler. And not for this forum, anyway. Just IMHO.
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Xolvexs
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
241
Posts :
2848
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 16:04
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well sometimes i surprize myself too..but its really annoying how everybody is out to save the world and the planet and forcing that belief of fear and paranoia on those who refuse to accept it.yes there is a problem but the problems have always been there and that problem is of fear..and thats just multipled over and over again projected and then everyones attention drawn to that ..its such huge spin cycle fear and hope trap... thats the trap i try to avoid.. when i try to escape that i have maine coons trap which i fall into..which is okay to fall into i guess
http://afrocityblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/al-gore-global-warming-32824.jpg When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive |
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Addictive Elements
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
859
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 16:23
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woahhhhh.......im a lil out of my usual state now
and i opened this page......and i saw a topic "Our beloved PLANT needs us" !! and i was like wow i need to reply ....and den reality struck !!!!!!!!!
----- Hippies...they wanna save the earth....but all they ever do is smoke pot ---- |
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 21:04
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On 2010-06-28 17:44, Maine Coon wrote:
Basilisk,
I never doubted the phenomenon or our involvement in it. Even if you discard all the professional science on this subject, there are still layman observations to support this theory. There are people who meticulously document bird migrations in their home areas as a hobby. If you go into their journals, you’ll see that the same bird species arrive in the spring a couple of weeks earlier than they did 30 years ago. And as somebody who lives in the Rust Belt, I do not doubt we carry the blame for the climate change at least to some degree.
As for the official science, it deals with models. And those models are used to make projections. And those projections are used to set policy (by the very people who disburse grants to build those models – hmm, how convenient). Yet, they are still just models. Too few variables – and you are missing important relationships. Too many – and you’re overfitting. The very same data set can be “cleaned”, analyzed and modeled in a million different ways. Add a factor here, break a feedback loop there, change your significance threshold, put words like “non-linear dynamic system” into the discussion – and you got yourself a pretty believable model with pretty convincing conclusions. Yet, Texas is still there, for better or worse. And I don’t see any peaches, let alone oranges, in Michigan. So, we know at least one model was wrong, right? (Unless everything suddenly changes in the remaining 15 years, of course ).
You are enthusiastic about these findings because you are a scientist. I am skeptical about them for the very same reason. I don’t doubt the measurements – just the conclusions. Science is not impervious to politics and commerce (I can give you real-life examples, if you have not observed your own yet). Especially science with such far-reaching social and economic consequences.
The really important questions are not figured out in scientific meetings – they are decided in cozy mansions in the woods of Connecticut and Rhode Island. The only reason there is still any debate on the global warming issue is that those discreet forest dwellers have not reached consensus yet on which conclusion is more profitable to them. |
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I appreciate your lucid and informed response. The official science does not deal exclusively with models, however... on the empirical there are multiple convergent lines of evidence supporting AGW theory.
Scepticism is the appropriate attitude for any scientist--and this is precisely where I was at before beginning my deeper exploration of climate science at university. I went into my classes very uncertain about modelling in particular--and made it my goal to figure out what the limitations are. Turns out some aspects of climate science lend themselves to modelling quite well whereas others--such as the cloud feedback--do not (and likely will not at any point in the near future). The results of various modelling regimes can be compared with empirical data as the years pass and tweaks can be made to improve accuracy. Overall I've seen a fair agreement between the stated predictive power of various classes of models (i.e. GCMs) and their actual results (based on data collected since then). As I learned, many of the scientists behind the models are quite forthcoming with the inherent limitations of their creations. It is all just a work in progress--but not blind fumbling in the dark, at least.
Of course, translating the nuance of scientific uncertainty into actionable policy statements is fraught with error. The IPCC seeks to strike a balance that is more conservative than most people might think (by virtue of the fact that many of the "conservative" statements seem quite alarmist). Still, an issue like sea level rise is a perfect example of where the IPCC hedges their bets with the far more conservative option (they simply ignore the dynamical effects of ice sheet melting in Greenland since the models are considered to be uncertain). I suppose what I am saying here is not "the science is infallible" but rather that the science--when it is done properly--overtly indicates the confidence level of the results. Whenever individual authors fail to do so they are torn apart by their peers. Though it is an imperfect system it is highly self-correcting in the long run.
As for Xolvexs, well... continue living in that acid-drenched fantasy land of yours. I don't expect to be able to reach everyone.
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 21:55
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^
I feel that we agree far more than we disagree. About science, at least.
There are still some issues that make you say “hmmm...” – like the politics of grant disbursements and censorship at the journal editor level. Those things do not change the science part, but they surely can skew it. When we assess a consensus within the scientific community, we have to remember about the survivorship bias there: we can not ignore findings of those scientists whose careers were destroyed because of their “wrong answers”. Nor should we forget deals like “we won’t publish your paper unless you remove this part, some may deem it politically incorrect” (yes, I am speaking from experience).
So, while I agree with everything you said about the scientific method and peer review, I am still very cautious about the powerful special interests that have a huge stake in the outcome of this research – governments and supranational bodies being on top of the list. A marriage of government and macro theories always has far reaching implications. Even not so much the theories themselves but their misinterpretation and misapplication. Just consider what mess followed Keynes and Friedman. Even if the scientific consensus is clean and fair, policies that follow from it may not be.
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Xolvexs
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
241
Posts :
2848
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 21:58
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aiaiaai..it boils down to that "acid drenched fantasy" vs scientist betting and hedging hmmm a fantasy or a bet i dont you tell me whats the difference between a bet and a fantasy oh all knowing all intelligent all might ..because i should know what i am saving am saving some resource thats inside the earth or i am saving the access to that resource..and then if there is such a big problem why are the nations having such big problem coming to a mutual understandings? why do they want special treatment and stuff like that--IPCC is a bunch of pussy..talk talk yap yap- scare the world introduce new products extend the life cycle of the industrial revolution replace the old power plants with new solar powered one and wind thats all there is to it...use biofuel instead of oil its just substitution of something new for old..in marketing its called packaging--its billion dollar industry and nations are packaged and so are patriots and now we that we have packaged the earth and dressed her up in nice moist wet green robe and we are ready to undress her showing her pink tits with dark brown nipples...u want to suck on them? its a fantasy of every IPCC official including Dr RK Pachuri himself infact he wrote a saucy novel recentally
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 23:11
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Regardless of what we think about various groups’ motivation behind the whole hoopla – what stops each one of us from doing a small part in not making it worse?
I am not talking about chaining yourself to a tree. Just about common sense actions that would be our second nature if we hadn’t been conditioned otherwise by the consumer society. Like recycling those soda cans instead of throwing them away. Like using space heaters where you sit instead of heating the whole house in the winter. Like heating your house to 65 F / 18 C and wearing a sweatshirt instead of cranking it up to 85 F / 30 C and walking around in your underwear...
The list can keep on going. We all know what makes sense and what does not – just need to stop and think for a second about what we are doing, be aware of the moment. It’s not about saving the Earth – it’s about not living like a zombie. This is where this whole wretched topic connects with psy trance, IMHO.
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Boulevard
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
2497
Posted : Jun 30, 2010 00:53
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On 2010-06-29 23:11, Maine Coon wrote:
cranking it up to 85 F / 30 C and walking around in your underwear...
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LOL.That would one Dumb Fuck
Mushrooms make you do crazy stuff. Look at Mario he jumps on animal heads and fights with dragons. |
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Xolvexs
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
241
Posts :
2848
Posted : Jun 30, 2010 06:37
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i point .357 single action Colt Rugger at your head and fire you are hit no one is around you are bleeding profusely from your skull your eyes are dislodged you experience multiple blackouts, you only 5 minutes left or else you DIE...you are a trained surgeon as well as paramedic..you manage to remove the bullet but just then i decide to fire two more rounds because i have more bullets this time one on your crotch and another straight at your heart all at close range...you have all your research material right next you ...can you save yourself from me? you dont know my NATURE and i am a human and you expect me to believe that you understand the NATURE of the EARTH which is so huge that all the 6billion humans combined are insignificant in comparison and on top of that a few bunch of them want to save the planet??? r u kidding me??? r u on drugs??? u see a masked gun man running around and you will be the first to run for cover trying to save your own life and you are here saying that we can save the planet??? are you going to save the planet and store it in a deep freezer for all of eternity??? you dont have faith in the forces of nature..you dont trust the nature you trust your intellect more than you trust nature...your interaction with nature is not direct its through the eyes of the research agencies that produce the reports...you restrict nature to a man-made "time-frame" and man-made measurement system and then when that measurement begins to fall short add subtract divide multiply and keep doing that and thats all you do...nature is beyond that what once was a mighty mountain today is measly piece of coal, what once was a measly piece of coal could today be a diamond..what today is diamond could be crushed down to a pebble and powdered down to dust...you want to compete with nature your intellect is not allowing you accept defeat from nature ...and when someone tells your intellect is weaker than nature you call it an "acid drenched fantasy" -an inconvenient truth- Humankind is supreme and only humans can save the planet...you think animals are stupid?? you think insects like dragonflies and bees lack the intellect and survival instincts? cockroaches survive the worst of the worst..lizards and reptiles have biological far beyond humans..and then you have the parasites and viruses that come and eat off your body parts while you are alive and you dont even realize..until you go for a medical test and see a tapeworm lingering...and then you say 'SAVE ME" -ha...hahahahaa...to scared to live even more scared to die -so now keep me entertained When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive |
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Login
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
65
Posts :
1707
Posted : Jun 30, 2010 09:11
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On 2010-06-28 17:44, Maine Coon wrote:
The really important questions are not figured out in scientific meetings – they are decided in cozy mansions in the woods of Connecticut and Rhode Island. The only reason there is still any debate on the global warming issue is that those discreet forest dwellers have not reached consensus yet on which conclusion is more profitable to them.
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I partially agree on that, but its not about which is more proffitable, but which will make less losses. Because losses is the only thing we will have: peak oil and climate change together are not so easy to manage even for the elite.
In the end I think the chaos coming is so great nobody will have the power to control it. Humanity is getting in check.
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures." |
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