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Originality in PsyTrance...
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
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5306
Posted : Mar 31, 2008 13:01
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Dharma Lab
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
342
Posted : Mar 31, 2008 21:25
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I will try to keep my comments brief, because there is so much that comes to mind when I read thru all these posts, so some may be abrupt for now.
I really enjoy these types of conversations, because I always learn a new viewpoint. But anyone who asks questions about originality, in my opinion, needs to first get a grip on their perspective, and the forces driving it at this point in your life.
First and foremost, as I've said before, I believe art is the process, not the product. You can view, or listen to a work of art, but unless you are the artist, you will never fully understand the process. This glaringly points to the subjectivity of art, and it's works. I think the harder you try to objectify it, the more you move away from the experience itself.
With this in mind, the amount of creativity or originality in a work of art is likewise a subjective experience. Your perception will drive your experience, and there are lots of things that will affect your perception. One very simple one, as mentioned before, is your previous history of music. Just because it's not original to you, does not mean everyone else views it the same. I think you'll find that the larger your dataset, the smaller the percentage of things you would find as 'original'.
If you wanted to be totally original, you'd also have to throw out the entire system of music, including scales & rhythms. So let's be honest, we are drawing some sort of abstract line between accepted tools/devices, and what we now consider 'overplayed, or unoriginal'. When it comes to music, there are a finite number of tools/devices to product the desired effect or impact. One could say, though, three are infinite combinations of these tools. I say, there are infinite number of experiences of these tools & their combinations, based on each individuals current percepttion.
I DJ often, and totally know the feeling of hearing a ton of songs that sound the same. I usually don't bash the artist, or question them either, I just move on.
Just because you are misunderstood, doesn't make you a genious. Each of us sees what seperates us from the rest of the pack, and often think of ourselves as the hero in the story of our own life, but ultimately I think you have to let your work stand on it's own & let others come to their conclusions.
I think it's human nature for our brains to often seek out patterns or familiar associations. How often do you think we really are seeking out the new & original in our sensory experieences, compared to how often we are seeking out the familiar?
  Keep The Faith,
Christian K. |
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Zoopy
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
44
Posts :
538
Posted : Mar 31, 2008 23:55
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Quote:
| I would want to say don't focus on trying to blow people's minds, but focus on making good, groovy music.
to me, great music breathes, and takes on an energy and life of its own when playing. you can feel it! its like conjuring up a force. focus on this aspect, and the rest will follow
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Man, this is what i have most difficulty with .. good point. |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Apr 1, 2008 00:40
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Im sorry - But by "originality" I just assumed that the topic of conversation was about badly made trance vs well made and interesting trance.
Dharma lab, I dont think that philosophical originality is what is being discussed. But rather the lack of artists who are able to move beyond plain plagiarism.
The problem is that they are a glut which is "destroying" the scene. But if they are doing that then certainly they are willing to do it for free.  (and by they I mean us)
There are two sides to this from an economics point of view. Becoz of technology, production of trance is extremely cheap, i.e. almost free. psy trance particularly doesnt even require an education in music. so supply is high for almost no cost.
at the same time demand for music has been shifted becoz of free downloading technology so there is basically no demand which wants to pay for music.
i.e. technology has doubly assaulted the capitalist approach of music production and this music scene particularly which was dirt cheap to begin with.
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Apr 1, 2008 00:41
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The law of supply states that as the cost per product increases, so does the production volume increase, coz more money is to be made from an expensive product. ideally it could increase forever but it is balanced by demand, and chases a price which the consumer is prepared to pay. if that price is a high one then there will be plenty of supply and lots of competition. if the consumer is used to getting music for free then supply will only occur from people who want to work for no financial remuneration.
This scene is doomed becoz every1 thinks that the crap being played is not even worth buying to keep the artists producing since they are all so generic. And we are used to not paying anyway, so if someone decent comes along we rip em off in a frenzy until they reckon "I can make a better living elsewhere". self fullfilling prophecy and vicious circle.
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Apr 1, 2008 00:41
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I think what we are witnessing is the conversion of psy into "bottom of the barrel" type music. I dont even think theres anything we can do about it, becoz the fundamentals suck. I myself am disenchanted with how bad the music is at parties. I have stopped going becoz id rather be listening to some ebm or electronic punk or experimental shit.
Think of it this way. Would You like to invest in an industry with no returns? it seems that we do anyway. talk about financial insanity. People with their heads on straight go and build a better future for themselves instead of investing in a black hole.s |
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Glitch_CapeTown
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
952
Posted : Apr 1, 2008 01:29
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the daleks
The Daleks
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
584
Posted : Apr 1, 2008 04:06
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Apr 1, 2008 11:02
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Glitch_CapeTown
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
952
Posted : Apr 1, 2008 11:21
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Apr 1, 2008 12:23
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I reckon some of the points that bukboy raises actually give me hope for the scene.
Apathy is rising quickly amongst listeners due to the blandness of 90%odd of the releases.
This means that pretty soon even the very poor financial renumerations most record companies survive on will become even more limited.
Which means some of them will roll over and die.
Good. That would be the first step to a more healthy state of average release quality; ditch the companies that are just 'milking' a sucessful sound.
Secondly, the companies that survive are a)well managed, and b) producing something that stands out from the crowd. Again this is a good thing.
Psy has been here before (at least twice), its nothing to worry about, its a good thing.
It just needs a good prune, and a period of relative unpopularity.
As for originality in music - There is plenty of original music out there as far as I'm concerned. It just isn't getting the released on record labels, who are desperately trying to play it safe, which is of course stupid, as sticking with the crowd is the one way of ensuring that no-one will notice your releases... its better to burn out then to fade away...
So, bizarre as it may sound, and much as I hate the current state of releases, I'm actually more optimistic about the future of psy then I have been for a long time.
And for the DJs out there, if you don't actually really dig it, don't play it! There is plenty of good music out there, If you personally don't like what is out there getting released, vote with your feet. Play something that you do like. We have well over a decade of psy releases. Good releases don't stop being good, people just stop playing them, I have yet to figure out why. I didn't know music had to be disposable?  .
http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Apr 1, 2008 12:47
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Personally I don't really care to much if music is original or not.
The main thing is that you can hear that the artist is enjoying what he does and that he really put his feeling into it.
Sure, I do agree that there is a problem in the scene that a lot of artists want to sound like other artists.
It makes it easier to get released and played, and it becomes an evil circle where it actually get difficult to find enough material for a set or a compilation that doesn't sound like it made from a standardized mould.
But it can become just as boring when people really try to be original...it doesn't happen so much in this scene right now, but it does in other genres.
So the main thing IMO is to just do your thing...if it turns out your sound is very similar to other artists that's fine, or if it's really original that's fine too....as long as you let the music take it's own form and express what you feel it will be possible to hear in the result and make the music interesting.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Apr 1, 2008 17:15
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music only brings emotions to the surface (if you know how to make it from first place)
offcourse in year 2008 there is less soul in the world and more technology , money rules etc.
and beside the hole "globalizm" of joint media made peaple more equal in their idea's (or lack of them should i say , something conected with t.v and stuff)
hard to say if im allready grown up but in my age (27) i can allready see the diffrence with todays "online" kids vs. "playground" kids of the 80's... natturaly they will make diffrent music
anywayz , the sound of "i wann make money of dance music and fast" is boring for most peaple allready , altho they stil atract most of the young crowds and the peaple looking for simple dance
but as far i can tell , you (and me) look more for someone who is trying to bring something new , to shake the ground of conformist dance music and have emotions of fun and love and freedom expressed more then money vibe.
anywayz some musics that is realy original and have emotion in it , not trying to "brake your head" or "smash the dancefloor" yet do it very good still...
giiwa rec.
morning monster rec.
exogenic rec.
parvati rec.
zenon rec.
fairie dragon rec.
or perhaps some older stuff like tip dragonfly matzuri , i dont care they are aged , so has sepultura and i still like it
just some outa my head right now... and tryied to be diversed in "styles" probably heaps of more great stuff out there , cant possibly list all.. as well its only my private taste i guess ...
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Apr 1, 2008 18:02
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I may be completely off on this since I have not been listening to or djing psy for long, but is it possible that producers just sit down and make a track because they have a preset mentality of "what a track SHOULD sound like". I like to look at early forms of Jazz for creative inspiration. Many of those musicians really tested the bounds of their art even at its early stages and they created music that is still mind blowing today- Dizzy Gillespie, Dave Brubeck, Duke Ellington, Max Roach just to name a few. Most of what they did related to changing the composition of their band- adding or removing sections. Some concentrated on the use of space to create a mood with their song. Some even changed their songs to 5/4 instead of the traditional 4/4. I kinda ran on a tangent there, maybe these are things some have thought of, maybe not.
Maybe a change in venue or equipment can help spawn originality as well. http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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Dharma Lab
Started Topics :
8
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342
Posted : Apr 1, 2008 21:01
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It's the sad state of affairs that that technology has had a positive & some severly negative effects on music in general. It's easier & cheaper than ever to produce any music, and so you are going to get more people making music. The unfortunate downside is that there is probably going to be more & more music that is mediocre in many areas.
Add to the fact that an entire paradign shift is happening in music distribution & revenues. The old methods are on their way out the door. Before we were all slaves to the distribution of the record labels. That is no longer necessary. The downside, how do you make money?
If you ask me, the music, much like other products that approach 'no cost' production, will be given away free. It's the user base, & their information that is going the generate the revenue. Sure, shows & t-shirt sales will help, & if you're good enough, you will be playing out in lots of places.
When all's said & done, it takes a lot of factors to fall into place. I agree with SpinDrift that it isn't all about the originality for me, but the passion, drive & dertermination to your thing, & do it as well as you can, even if it happens to be the same as other people. When you combine that with something fresh, you are a force to be reckoned with. Then you have to get the right exposure.
In the end, I doubt I will ever quit my day job, but I don't think I'll quit being involved with music either.
Keep The Faith,
Christian K. |
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Does giving a listener headache count as a orginality 
