subconsciousmind
SCM
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37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Mar 26, 2008 20:16
Most of the people are not able or willing to adapt to originality. They need common, known ideas which they learned to understand.
My experience is that most listeners are not really able to understand music which is not as the music they are used to. Even those saying "fullon is so generic" wander off to "sooo more original dark psy" and there fall for the same games and repetitions.. until they find out there too.. then they wander of to... and so on. I'm watchin people in the psytrance for more then 10 years. They fall for some "genre" or "style" and after a year or so they find out that it is always the same and wander off to another style and again and again...
Will they ever find out, that not the "style" makes the quality? Will they ever find out that a "style" can NEVER be "original"?
I was never confined to a style but always to specific "quality".. to the one qualities that are the most difficult to perceive: Authenticy, personality and originality.
What really makes music truly original?
There is only one thing in this world, which is truly original: YOURSELF!!! HUMAN BEINGS
Consequently: truly original music HAS TO be mirroring the personality of the artist.
You maybe able to create something NEW, but if it does not involve the artists personality it can be copied.
You can copy almost everything of song, but you can not copy it's personality.
And of course there are always those saying that everything is a copy of something and nothing is truly original, that some rules have to be followed to make it psytrance etc. etc. and of course they are somewhere right. But they forget that this is not a question of black or white!
Are you copying a complete song structure, complete breaks (filtered bassline.. etc) or using z3ta presets everybody else has used before?
Or are you inspired in a more complex level? Listen to days "psytrance" most of the music is happening with extremely narrow borders. It could be so much more diverse and it would still be psytrance.
You want original music? Try mine. I do my best to honestly show myself through the music. Following my logic it should be original..
If you are able to be perceive beyond "styles" and drawers you may like my old album:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch/scm/html/music/gfuehlsweid/gfuehlsweidlisten.php (one of my least original songs is playing in the background)
vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Mar 26, 2008 20:19
Have a listen to non-psy music or do as i do stop listen to 4/4 dancemusic.
I have completely stopped listening to that at home, makes me appreciate the music at parties more than i usually do. Have a listen to http://www.bassdrive.com thats one of the best DnB radios on the net.
Perhaps have listen to what they decided to label "math-core" lolz which would include groups like:
Meshuggah, Dillinger escape plan, sikth, fall of troy and Blood has been shed.
I also want to include Tool even thou its not metal or Hardcore but still very complex music both harmonically and rhytmwise.
Edit: just saw that we should post mp3 clips and such, don´t have anything available at the moment but i published this awhile ago on myspace. Just some footage from the mexican tour i did last summer with some overdubbed new stuff i´ve been working on. And i wouldn´t even go near calling it "Dark".
---> http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=27895138
FaceHead
FaceHead
Started Topics :
129
Posts :
1555
Posted : Mar 27, 2008 02:46
nice.....
"Id rather suffer now than live this life without passion"
anyway see this is what i mean im not saying you have to re invent what music is but there are infinat ways to creat your own unique sound while staying within a genres boundries. So the point about things being too weird and un listenable is null. IF you want to stay in the genre do it but do it your own way if you want to try something new then do it just dont recycle ideas. Ideas are our most powerful tools in music creation and recycling them is much worse than using only premade preset packs on all your vsts. All music is is different configurations of ideas translated with our tools into something we can percieve with our ears so if you trace that chain back to its roots the root is the idea itself.
(still downloading subconcious)
heretical
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
77
Posted : Mar 27, 2008 14:31
Quote:
Meshuggah, Dillinger escape plan, sikth, fall of troy and Blood has been shed.
I also want to include Tool
These are really good examples of bands that have done something innovative in a context that most people would say has no room for innovation. Meshuggah is extremely innovative but if you compare it to other metal bands that sound like every other metal band, the difference is only oh so slight. Tool might even be a better example. Not much difference between them and paint by number rock radio but they combine a higher level of technical mastery, a unique harmonic sound to themselves, a unique vocalist..all this wouldn't mean anything if they didn't write good songs though.
To me innovation should happen naturally as you master the genre and seek to move beyond what others have done. If you don't master the genre though, you end up getting a modern painting/art form of innovation. Someone nailing used condoms to a canvas and calling it innovative gallery art.
I study the field of performance and expertise to a degree, if you look into this field the main thing that seperates the masters from the average is directed practice and a ton of hardwork. It doesn't matter if its painting or basketball, we tend to see "natural talent" as more than it is and don't see the extreme amounts of hard work the masters have put into their craft in the form of practice.
For myself, this has sent me back to the drawing board. I spent years trying to get very good at synthesis but never concentrated on music practice. For the last 6 months I stopped making music completely, stopped sound designing and have spent my musical time picking a scale/chord for the day, and then do "piano roll practice" with just using a square wave, trying to drill the harmonic color into my brain pattern wise.
I'll probly do this for another year, then spend another year practice orchestration with a sine, saw and square.
If your already know this stuff, then take a year off and become a master of synthesis, practice only synthesis.
To me this is ultimately what it will take to push this genre forward. Just like your not going to pick up a guitar tomarrow and have any chance of going beyond meshuggah if your making metal music.
Ultimately, this scene to me is largely comprised of lazy people who want to get stoned all day and delude themselves into some touchy feely ideas of art/spirituallity without the hard work.
When a genre is new its easy to be creative by just being tricky since not much has been done before. At some point though its time to buckle down and do the heavy lifting in order to move beyond what has been done before.
soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Mar 27, 2008 18:32
Ehm... right. I'm not going to start pointing fingers and whatnot but alot of people who bitch about lack of originality seems to me, at least from what I've heard arent very original. What we have is a genre based entirely on rules. 4 on the floor narrow tempo ranged repetetive music and to make it less original everyone's looking for "that sound". I'm not a sinic however and I realise that most people who make music are doing so for their own enjoyment, which is amazing and in doing so there are always some form of their own personality inherent in their work.
But just wait a minute. Here's an idea... now hear me out, this may sound a little radical to some and obvious to others or maybe just a bad attempt at waxing intelectual with you folks. It seems to me beneath all these time/rhythm related rules there's this whole sonic no hold's barred thing that people don't really take advantage of because most people use the exact same kit to do it. The synth, the midi matrix and good ol' quantise features. Now I know synths can do a hell of a lot soundwise, but with all the other technology available today we seem to be less open minded than say a 70's minimal style Brian Eno, just as an example who had his ears open to the world pretty much 24/7 looking for a sound that would reflect a theme that was relevant to his current work.
With even the most basic digital sampling technology you can take ANY sound and make a melody out of it so why arent more people doing. Probably because they are too busy bitching about a lack of originality or have been locked in a room for a long while with nothing but a simple DAW for company. Now I'm not saying record a moose, speed it up, reverse it, bitcrush, add verb, reverse, cut splice and make it sing, as there are many things you can do with other convential music instruments which sound far more harmonically rich and interesting than a synthesizer also.
I'd just like to add I really do love synths and midi capability and if they had a soft and warm bit I'd probably have a threesome with them, but another way to access instant bassline originality is to try and play your basslines by hand. That's 99.9% of us saying goodbye to 16ths above 120bpm obviously, but when you go straight for that matrix your bass vision becomes likened to that of a recovering dog with a cone around it's face. And how many people set the bpm before they even think of a motif to feature in the track?
Ah shit... no one reads posts that are this long.
I just want to finish by saying I love monotone 16th basslines at 145 with predictable hi pass saw lead. They make me groove hard! Which is what it's all about.
subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Mar 27, 2008 19:06
@heretical,
Add five years of learning how to write a song after you learned all your technical skills
@soulfood,
I'd prefer you would point fingers and not just raise them or remain silent. I personally like the direct approach.
As for the other comments. For my taste you are looking at all this too much in "notes" and "sounds". If there is 16th predictable bassline or not has nothing to do with originality.
originality is far more complex. You have to look at an artwork as a whole, without analyzing it to see if its original or not. You can ALWAYS find common patterns in EVERYTHING, if you want to prove something unoriginal by pointing out "what" has been used "where" "before" you can prove EVERYTHING unoriginal.
As I said, its far more complex, its about combinations and much more.
Glitch_CapeTown
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
952
Posted : Mar 27, 2008 21:28
Quote:
On 2008-03-26 20:19, vegetal wrote:
Have a listen to non-psy music or do as i do stop listen to 4/4 dancemusic.
I have completely stopped listening to that at home, makes me appreciate the music at parties more than i usually do. Have a listen to http://www.bassdrive.com thats one of the best DnB radios on the net.
Perhaps have listen to what they decided to label "math-core" lolz which would include groups like:
Meshuggah, Dillinger escape plan, sikth, fall of troy and Blood has been shed.
I also want to include Tool even thou its not metal or Hardcore but still very complex music both harmonically and rhytmwise.
Edit: just saw that we should post mp3 clips and such, don´t have anything available at the moment but i published this awhile ago on myspace. Just some footage from the mexican tour i did last summer with some overdubbed new stuff i´ve been working on. And i wouldn´t even go near calling it "Dark".
---> http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=27895138
aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
Posts :
2562
Posted : Mar 28, 2008 06:32
Subconcious mind ! u took the words of my mouth
i like ur point of view. mine is not entirely the same .
but heres an example ,
consider leonardo da vinci , He was original alright. But did u know he had ppl working for him ... ? kinda kills the originality dusnt it
Originality , just can not be subjective to a genre or the 16th predictable bass .
It is how the ART form strikes u and send the message.
Art imho is not so original itself. Cos its ALL BEEN DONE BEFORE.
( last line stands true for most psy chics also ) hahahaha
OpenSourceCode
Datavore
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
660
Posted : Mar 28, 2008 06:34
I disagree.
I think we absolutely MUST record the moose and process it.
Oh, if I didn't live in New York.....
aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
Posts :
2562
Posted : Mar 28, 2008 06:36
and @ heretical .
I have a cool example for u , Remember kindzadza na ostrav , IT released on some cool Va back in the day.
IT was something back then , But now the newer cheesier stuff also is mega better in quality, Not to mention the more powerfull and incredibaly solid new expansive structures for the new psytrance
AFter this i believe u will change ur thoughts on pusghing the psytrance forward.
bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 28, 2008 07:25
"dwaf! dwaf! dwaf! dwaf!" = "A good description of psy" says my dancer girlfriend who hogs speakers.
gutter
Inactive User
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54
Posts :
3018
Posted : Mar 28, 2008 13:00
SUBLIME
the biggest innovative band of the 90s
pure inspiration
Quote:
On 2008-03-26 20:19, vegetal wrote:
Have a listen to non-psy music or do as i do stop listen to 4/4 dancemusic.
"lovin' is what i got"
Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Mar 28, 2008 13:14
Maybe this was said before, but why would you look at what the rest is doing ? Just try to concentrate on what you want from your own music, not other people's music creativity-wise. It's the only thing you can influence, and the only thing you should influence, right ?
So, a lot of people are making crap psy. So what ? I don't have to buy it or listen to it.
subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Mar 28, 2008 19:43
Quote:
So, a lot of people are making crap psy. So what ? I don't have to buy it or listen to it.
Yes you do, if you want to go to parties, there is no way around it... Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch
FaceHead
FaceHead
Started Topics :
129
Posts :
1555
Posted : Mar 28, 2008 22:45
there thats what im sayin in my area we have enough people but the music isnt driving them they are all playing the best of what they can find but want more and it shows the crowd out there tapping toes and flicking fingers while THE BOMB track is dropped. ITs because there isnt anything new about it even though its THE BOMB its the same kinda bomb thats been dropped on us several times before. So i see people reacting to this and moving to more intense music because its unclear why people arent reacting anymore. So in eugene oregon the same old stuff isnt working anymore. Last summer I played all over the country and most places people got bored or tired by 7 am and went off to find their tent. I remember being new to the scene and wanting and needing sleep sooo bad but track after track was forcing me to stay up and wait to see what was coming next. That was years ago though and im still hearing roughly the same stuff so in turn its not as fun as when every track was a gift from the artist. Thinking of it like gifts if every year for your birthday you were given the same thing eventually you wouldnt look forward to getting anything or care at all if you did.